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What are my rights to see my polygraph results? (Read 8260 times)
Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box mattwings
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What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Sep 27th, 2007 at 2:19pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
I was under investigation earlier this year for a crime I did not commit.  My attorney had me take a polygraph test with a private individual who is very well respected in the field.  He was the head of a large police departments polygraph dept and trains many people throughout the country.  He now has his own private practice. My attorney sends his clients there before he sends them to the sherrifs dept for the real one.  If his clients fail the private one he doesn't send them to the real one.  Anyway, I passed the private one.  My attorney has never had someone pass the private one and fail the sherriff.  In fact the private polygrapher trained the current county sherriff polygrapher.  So when i took the polygraph test with the sherriff my attorney did not have me take the post test.  He never has his clients do this and said it is common.  The county polygrapher said this was unusual and said the prosecution really wanted me to take the post test.  He told me I could walk out after the actual testing was done but he wouldn't sign anything that pre-approved me not taking the post test.  So that is what i did.  I took the test and when that part was done I said "Is this when I should leave?" and he said "yes."  He told me he would be out in a minute to tell my attny and myself the results.  He came out about 45 mins later and said "I know the results of your private test and these were a little different.  There were indicators that showed signs of deception.  I'd really like to get you back in for the post test."  To which my attorney said, no way and asked for specifics.  "Well there were just some indicators that showed deception."  And he would not give specifics.  He then told us he would have the results to us the next day or the day after.  that was in April and we have not been shown the results and have not been able to get a hold of them.  It was understood that if I pass that polygraph the criminal charges that had not been brought forth yet would be dropped.  If I failed they were going to go after me with 1st degree in my case.  About three weeks after the test I was offered a plea for 4th degree, which is a misdimeanor.  We actually had a third party, "impartial party" hired by a judge to investigate some of the background of my whole case and they have access to all documents.  They have a legal right to everything under the sun.  The third party tried through the prosecution and the sherriffs department to get the results and could not get them.  She told us she has never had this problem before.  The prosecution throughout the discussions would say that I failed the polygraph test, but when we asked for results they would not give them to us. 

What are my rights to seeing my results of that test?  I mean all the detail.  This has been one small piece of the nightmare my family and myself have been going through and would really like to get the raw data from that test.  Does anyone know where I would start? 

Thanks a lot. 

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Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #1 - Sep 28th, 2007 at 5:01am
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mattwings,

It certainly sounds like the prosecution and sheriff's department have something to hide. There can be no legitimate reason for them not to disclose the record of your polygraph examination. I'm not a lawyer, but applicable laws might include your state's rules of evidence and public information access law.
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George W. Maschke
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #2 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 1:56pm
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Anyone having criminal problems always state their crime unless it is a sex offense.   So mattwings, did you try  countermeasures on the second test?
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Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #3 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:07pm
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Wonder_Woman wrote on Sep 30th, 2007 at 1:56pm:
Anyone having criminal problems always state their crime unless it is a sex offense.


And you know this...how? In any event mattwings stated up front that he/she did not commit the crime for which he/she was under investigation.

Quote:
So mattwings, did you try countermeasures on the second test?


That's not relevant to mattwings' question, which is about obtaining his/her polygraph records. Can you (or any other polygrapher here) offer a good faith reason for not releasing the polygraph records so that they may be independently reviewed?
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George W. Maschke
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Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. -- Saul Bellow
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #4 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:11pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
George, I asked a legitimate question.  Mattwings, did you use countermeasures on your second test.

BTW, this is relevant.  If he used countermeasures, that could have been the problem and others here should know about it.
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #5 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:18pm
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BTW, I didn't say mattwings was guilty or not.  In fact, I implied the exact opposite.  If he used CM's the CM's screwed him over since he passed the first polygraph.  And for how I know when people don't mention their crimes it is usually a sex offense....I either am currently or retired from LE.
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Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #6 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:19pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Wonder_Woman wrote on Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:11pm:
George, I asked a legitimate question.  Mattwings, did you use countermeasures on your second test.

BTW, this is relevant.  If he used countermeasures, that could have been the problem and others here should know about it.


You asked mattwings a question the answer to which is really none of your or anyone else's business, and which is of no relevance to his/her posted question.
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George W. Maschke
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Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. -- Saul Bellow
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Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #7 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:28pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Wonder_Woman wrote on Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:18pm:
BTW, I didn't say mattwings was guilty or not.  In fact, I implied the exact opposite.  If he used CM's the CM's screwed him over since he passed the first polygraph.  And for how I know when people don't mention their crimes it is usually a sex offense....I either am currently or retired from LE. 


Well, you wrote, "Anyone having criminal problems always state their crime unless it is a sex offense." I think that clearly implies guilt. An innocent person doesn't have "criminal problems." And I don't think any amount of law enforcement experience qualifies one to make such a sweeping generalization as you did. In any event, the nature of the crime for which mattwings was investigated is irrelevant to the question he/she posted.
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George W. Maschke
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Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. -- Saul Bellow
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #8 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:40pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
George, unlike you I know people get investigated for crimes...hello, it is an investigation and if he has an attorney he has criminal problems, regardless if his is guilty or innocent.  You my man are trying to deflect the true question of if he used countermeasures on the second exam.  I don't care if he wants the records. 

The point is you tell everyone to use CM's .....ta da, I'm off to save the world.    When in fact, CM'S don't work in the manner you think. 

I for one would like to know if he used CM's on the second test!
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #9 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 2:50pm
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Wonder Woman,

Thank you for explaining what you meant by "criminal problems," and I'm glad to know that by that expression, you did not mean to imply that mattwings is guilty of whatever crime he/she was investigated for.

I'd like to clarify that I don't, however, "tell everyone" to use polygraph countermeasures. AntiPolygraph.org's advice to those suspected of committing a crime has always been and remains to refuse the polygraph. As used by law enforcement agencies, it is often little more than a pretext for interrogating a suspect in the absence of legal counsel. Those suspected of a crime have little or nothing to gain from submitting to this pseudoscientific procedure, and potentially much to lose. Again, our advice to anyone suspected of a crime is to refuse the polygraph and not speak with investigators without a lawyer.
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George W. Maschke
E-mail: maschke@antipolygraph.org
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Twitter: georgemaschke
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Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. -- Saul Bellow
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #10 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 3:00pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Quote:
I'd like to clarify that I don't, however, "tell everyone" to use polygraph countermeasures. AntiPolygraph.org's advice to those suspected of committing a crime has always been and remains to refuse the polygraph. A


George, are you that conscienceless???

Don't take the polygraph, but he're a free book on how to pass (or beat - if you are guilty of some crime or abuse).

You cannot delete your culpability anymore than the folks who provided firearms to Kleibold and Harris. But hey, they didn't tell those kids to go shoot up a school, any more than you advise people to sabotage their polygraph, and trash their career opportunities (or attempt to defeat the efforts of a criminal investigation).

As always,

Just damn proud to be here.

l

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Welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, well. To what do I owe the extreme pleasure of this surprising visit?
 
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #11 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 3:13pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
So the question is still out there.  Did Mattwings use countermeasures?  Regardless of if you told him specifically to use CM's or if he just read YOUR material and decided to use CM's on his own.
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Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #12 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 3:18pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Wonder_Woman wrote on Sep 30th, 2007 at 3:13pm:
So the question is still out there.  Did Mattwings use countermeasures?  Regardless of if you told him specifically to use CM's or if he just read YOUR material and decided to use CM's on his own.


Indeed, your question is out there, and mattwings may or may not choose to answer it. But for now, and back to the original topic of this discussion thread, can you (or any other polygrapher here) offer a good faith reason for not releasing the polygraph records so that they may be independently reviewed?
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George W. Maschke
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Twitter: georgemaschke
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SIP: georgemaschke@ostel.co
Encrypted voice and text chat (XMPP via Jitsi): georgemaschke@jit.si
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. -- Saul Bellow
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #13 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 3:27pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
I think the cop shop should release a report of some kind. But I am not sure they are obligated to do so. I suspect that the cop suspects countermeasures and the whole process has been cluster f'd. Telling people that innocent folks should use countermeasures is not a great idea-----and I should know as I am a real live, breathing Polygraph Examiner, not a near east linguist, nor am I a  3rd rate poet. Embarrassed


just my 2 cents
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Re: What are my rights to see my polygraph results?
Reply #14 - Sep 30th, 2007 at 3:31pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
I would allow another
polygraph examiner
to independantly review my records.  However, depending on who ran the examination, their agency may have requirements that prohit releasing investigative information.  I would also like to restate for this population, the POLYGRAPH will not convict this man of a crime.  The investigators will take this information and investigate further.

George, I also agree with Ludovico.  Even if you didn't personally tell someone to use CM's you are culpable if they receive this information from your site.

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