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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?.. (Read 23854 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wonder_Woman
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #15 - Sep 26th, 2007 at 10:56pm
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George, did you give Paleryder a chance to regret his posting and let him delete it. NO.  You banned him from the site.   Angry
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box triple x
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #16 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 12:45am
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Wonder_woman,

Although I certainly can't speak to whether or not George actually banned Paleryder from this site... I feel relatively certain that if Paleryder really had a desire to continue posting and debating polygraph testing and countermeasures, all he would have had to do is create a new user ID. That is of course, unless George blocked his IP address.

I would suspect that many members of this forum have re-established their persona under a new board identity.

triple x
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wonder_Woman
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #17 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 1:26am
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Trip,  check the posts on 9/21/07 @1628 In plain english.....reply 14. 

Regardless, I do realize that Palerider can re-invent him or her/self.   I thought Paleriders comments were thought provoking and sometimes damn right hillarious.  Palerider seamed like a brilliant intellectual with a quick wit.  Now Palerider is not to be confused with Pailryder (sorry dude, don't know anything about you - you may be okay too)

Bottom line is this is Georges sand box we are playing in.  He can try to push us around but he can't steal our lunch money.   

I just don't like the selective bannishment.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Brettski
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #18 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 3:39am
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palerider? brilliant intellectual? Now that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. My impression of palerider was something like this:

"Oohh, look at me, I have 3 hours to get to the truth with evil psychos that want to drink your kid's piss. What if there was a child molester in your community? George protects child molesters! I have to sleep for an interview with a child molester tomorrow. You're all welcome you ungrateful morons!"

Aggressive, self-praising, fear mongering, dismissive, & arrogant was more like it.

For the record, palerider stole his jokes from B movies; quick wit wasn't his strongsuit.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Sergeant1107
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #19 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 3:50am
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Wonder_Woman wrote on Sep 26th, 2007 at 9:03pm:
Geroge, this is one reason why I stated in an earlier thread that this site does more damage than good.  Police Hopeful is so screwed up right now - I have no doubt he will blow the polygraph.  Then you will have one more recruit to sling mud!

Maybe I view things differently, but am I the only who sees the inherent problem here?

If the polygraph was a valid detector of deception, then if the subject tells the truth then he or she should pass.  The sole requirement for passing should be: Tell the Truth.

It shouldn't matter if they researched something on the Internet, or if they bite their tongue, or if they do long division in their head, or anything else.

I think the arguments about countermeasure useage and the "damage" done by the information provided on this site simply point to the inherent problems in the polygraph.  If it was a valid test to begin with the examiner would be able to determine if the subject was being truthful or deceptive, regardless of what the subject thought, or how they breathed, or whether or not they clenched certain muscles.

It seems more damage is being done by polygraph examiners who are unwilling to admit they have no idea if subjects are being truthful or not.

Every time I see an examiner decry George or another poster for providing information that "helps child molesters" or some other hate-filled straw man attack, it makes me wonder how valid can the polygraph possibly be if a child molester or anyone else can visit a web site for ten minutes and learn enough to confound the exam?
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #20 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 6:11am
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Wonder_Woman wrote on Sep 26th, 2007 at 10:56pm:
George, did you give Paleryder a chance to regret his posting and let him delete it. NO.  You banned him from the site.   Angry 


Actually, palerider chose to disregard multiple admonishments (made through private messages) to respect AntiPolygraph.org's posting policy and keep it civil. The proximate cause of his being banned was his posting of disinformation in the message thread In plain english how are countermeasures.....
  

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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #21 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 8:55am
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Quote:
Wonder_Woman wrote on Sep 26th, 2007 at 10:56pm:
George, did you give Paleryder a chance to regret his posting and let him delete it. NO.  You banned him from the site.   Angry  


Actually, palerider chose to disregard multiple admonishments (made through private messages) to respect AntiPolygraph.org's posting policy and keep it civil. The proximate cause of his being banned was his posting of disinformation in the message thread In plain english how are countermeasures.....

I wonder how many people on the message board at PolygraphPlace.com have been banned simply for posting anti-polygraph sentiments?

I think it is amusing that a polygraph supporter like "Wonder Woman" would imply that George was somehow unfair or arbitrary in his banning of Palerider.  I would challenge her to provide a link to any pro-polygraph message board or forum that allows free discussion, from both sides of the fence, to any degree, much less with the completeness that George allows in this forum.

Free discussion and exchange of ideas, especially ideas opposed to one another, is a good thing.  That would beg the question of why such discussion and exchanges are not permitted on pro-polygraph message boards, and why supporters of the polygraph visit this board with no other intent but to post flame-bait and try to discredit the founders and members?
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #22 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 6:36pm
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I've got a series of questions that are asked during the polygraph, a sample test if you will, so could someone help me to figure out which ones are irrelevant,relevant and control.

Is John Joe your true legal name?
How many times have been married?
If offered this job would you take it?
Have you ever before been required to take a polygraph?
Have you placed any false information on your application?
When you left high school did you recieve your diploma?
Have you ever been fired from a job?
Were you ever requested to resign from one of your jobs?
Have you ever recieved a verbal or written reprimand?
Within the past year how many unauthorized das of work have you missed?
Have you ever registered for the selective services?
Do you think that you are rehireable for work for all of your past employers?
Would you have any concern about an investigation into your arrest record?
Have you ever been present when anyone else has commited a crime?
Have you ever knowingly transported someone who was carrying illegal drugs?
Since you were 18 years old have you ever thought about commiting some type of sexual crime?
Have you ever collected unemployment benefits or welfare inwhich you were not legally entitled to?
Have you ever commited any type of sexual crime?
Have you ever had any sexual contact with animals?
Other than an employer have you ever stolen anything?
have you ever commited a serious undetected crime?
have you ever committed a sexual crime?
Within the past 5 years have you done anything inwhich you could have been arrested for?
Have you ever smoked marijuana in your life?
Within the past 3 years have you ever been present when someone was using illegal drugs?
If employed with this department would you arrest a friend who was committing a crime?
Could you manage your financial affairs with the salary of this job alone?
Have you ever been late in paying rent?
Would you have any reason to be concerned involving an investigation into your honesty?
Do you gamble?
Since being a licensed driver have you ever drove without insurance required by law?(I'm really concerned about this one)
Have you ever driven under the influence of any type of drug or alcohol?
Have you ever hit or injured any person?
Are you afraid of firearms?
have you ever fired a firearm?
Have you ever done anything that you were ashamed of?
Have you answered each of these questions honestly?
Have you ever hit someone you were living with?


If someone could either put an IR,R or C by each of the questions that would be  much appreciated favor. Not only would it help me out but it would help out other people on here, by getting them prepared to take their polygraph.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #23 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 6:47pm
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policeHopeful,

Refer to the note at p. 140 of the 4th edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector:

Quote:
Note: If you receive a lengthy background questionnaire from an agency with which you are applying for employment, do not attempt to characterize each question on the list as a potential polygraph question. Questions asked during the "in-test" phase (that is, while you're attached to the polygraph instrument) often differ greatly from those provided on background questionnaires, and you will be better off studying question types here.
  

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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #24 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 6:57pm
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Yeah but the source I got these from who was a former polygrapher says that these re typical questions asked on the polygraph.
Actually this would be much less stressful for me if I knew what type of test it is I will be taking. I talked to a cop who works for the department for which I am applying and he said that the test is only about 30 minutes long! Is that typical for a control and relevant test? Or is that more typical of the irrelevant & relevant test?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #25 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 7:07pm
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The questions in your list are not typical of those asked during the in-test phase of a polygraph examination, though they might well be included in a pre-polygraph questionnaire.

30 minutes for a polyraph examination is very short, regardless of the technique used. The polygraph community has a derisive term for polygraphers who administer such abbreviated examinations: "chart rollers."
  

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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #26 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 7:31pm
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is that better for me then?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #27 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 7:34pm
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It's hard to say. The polygrapher's subjective opinion of you may become more important in such circumstances. See the section on behavioral countermeasures in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for pointers on how to avoid "appearing" deceptive.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #28 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 7:38pm
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How can I tell the difference between control and relevant?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Police pre-employment polys mostly IRrelevant & Relevant?..
Reply #29 - Sep 27th, 2007 at 7:42pm
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policeHopeful wrote on Sep 27th, 2007 at 7:38pm:
How can I tell the difference between control and relevant?


The difference is explained in Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, and additional tips for recognizing control questions are provided in Chapter 4.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
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