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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS (Read 22259 times)
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #30 - Jul 21st, 2007 at 9:23am
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I found you reference to the American International School Of Polygraph to be an interesting choice. This week I met 2 persons that have qualified from that school and neither can score
charts properly or at all; neither can formulate proper Relevant Questions and neither can identify basic, overt countermeasures.

A third person, also having 'qualified' from that great institution, offered a client the choice
of rendering an NDI or DI - wichever the client would prefer.

Otherwise they're all in good shape and ready to wreck careers and lives.
  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #31 - Jul 21st, 2007 at 9:23am
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I found your reference to the American International School Of Polygraph to be an interesting choice. This week I met 2 persons that have qualified from that school and neither can score
charts properly or at all; neither can formulate proper Relevant Questions and neither can identify basic, overt countermeasures.

A third person, also having 'qualified' from that great institution, offered a client the choice
of rendering an NDI or DI - wichever the client would prefer.

Otherwise they're all in good shape and ready to wreck careers and lives.
  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #32 - Jul 21st, 2007 at 10:23pm
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Kalex wrote on Jul 21st, 2007 at 9:23am:
I found your reference to the American International School Of Polygraph to be an interesting choice. This week I met 2 persons that have qualified from that school and neither can score
charts properly or at all; neither can formulate proper Relevant Questions and neither can identify basic, overt countermeasures.

A third person, also having 'qualified' from that great institution, offered a client the choice
of rendering an NDI or DI - wichever the client would prefer.

Otherwise they're all in good shape and ready to wreck careers and lives.


Kalex,

If you have artifacts to post, then send them to George, he has various means to acquire them. It would be good to see them, and be disputed by our resident polygraphers. But on the same note, as is true of most "trade schools - ACICS accredited, don't you know !!", this includes DACA (formerly DODPI), and of course the highly and academically respected, American Polygraph Association (yes, this is satire), if your breathing and have money, guess what your in, no brains required.  Just flash the cash and wahlah !!! Your a certified polygrapher, or any other one liners you care to add.  So it really does not surprize me from your statements. Its not much of a leap from asking "Are the lights on in the room", (obvious irrelevent question), to "Would you like that supersized with fries". And I have more respect for the laters ability to get the order right. Thanks for a highly entertaining post, I haven't had the chance to do satire in a while.

Regards ....
  

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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #33 - Jul 23rd, 2007 at 2:02pm
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Dear EOS,

I spoke to the persons concerned. (note the use of persons instead of people)
They are scared to become embroiled and ultimately to have their identities known.
The American International bunch may find reasons to revoke training certiticates...

So unfortunately, that saga wont go much further for now ( later,,,, maybe )

The one that offered the choices (Results R' Us ) might be an easier one to finger
as the 3 have become 2 / and as you may well know, when the bones are bare,
the hyenas turn upon themselves.

I will keep you informed of new developments.

Rgds,
  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #34 - Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:12pm
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Kalex,

When its possible post what you can. The biggest fear the polygraph industry hides is MASS non-acceptance or belief in their process and methods.  They have spent 70 years building up this fassad, it will take time for the public to fully realize that they are being lied too. But once the mass majority of average citizens disbelieves and says so, the polygraph will cease to exit. Polygraphers fear an informed, intelligent, well read subject, that is not afraid to speak the truth and tell them what a crock their polygraph and process are. And so inclined audacious, skilled, and intelligent individuals armed with countermeasures, are even a bigger fear and threat. It all depends to what level your willing to take the struggle too. Using a lie to catch a liar is a fools errand.
The polygraph industry is always trying to find new venues to exercise the trade, an example are fishing tournaments and other types of events where they can sow suspicion and fear that a contestant might cheat. Cheaters, like liars, and other lower life forms always get caught, what they are selling is just a theory of quicker self gradification.

Regards ..
  

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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #35 - Jul 26th, 2007 at 3:01pm
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EosJupiter wrote on Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:12pm:
Kalex,

When its possible post what you can. The biggest fear the polygraph industry hides is MASS non-acceptance or belief in their process and methods.  They have spent 70 years building up this fassad, it will take time for the public to fully realize that they are being lied too. But once the mass majority of average citizens disbelieves and says so, the polygraph will cease to exit. Polygraphers fear an informed, intelligent, well read subject, that is not afraid to speak the truth and tell them what a crock their polygraph and process are. And so inclined audacious, skilled, and intelligent individuals armed with countermeasures, are even a bigger fear and threat. It all depends to what level your willing to take the struggle too. Using a lie to catch a liar is a fools errand.
The polygraph industry is always trying to find new venues to exercise the trade, an example are fishing tournaments and other types of events where they can sow suspicion and fear that a contestant might cheat. Cheaters, like liars, and other lower life forms always get caught, what they are selling is just a theory of quicker self gradification.

Regards ..



Hi EOS,

I have the names of 5 examiners who qualified 'there' over the years, but who were not actually able to go out and test anybody, without remediation from colleagues.
They were happy to dish the dirt to myself and others, but not keen to tackle the Instructors and maybe put their 'accreditation' on the line.
Ditto for some of 'The truth doctor' courses. Seems like the Marston syndrome was a festering sore all this time.

APA Accreditation is as worthless as the Phd's of some the leading lights in the DOD industry.

Sincerely,



  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #36 - Jul 27th, 2007 at 4:35pm
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Kalex wrote on Jul 26th, 2007 at 3:01pm:
EosJupiter wrote on Jul 23rd, 2007 at 10:12pm:
Kalex,

When its possible post what you can. The biggest fear the polygraph industry hides is MASS non-acceptance or belief in their process and methods.  They have spent 70 years building up this fassad, it will take time for the public to fully realize that they are being lied too. But once the mass majority of average citizens disbelieves and says so, the polygraph will cease to exit. Polygraphers fear an informed, intelligent, well read subject, that is not afraid to speak the truth and tell them what a crock their polygraph and process are. And so inclined audacious, skilled, and intelligent individuals armed with countermeasures, are even a bigger fear and threat. It all depends to what level your willing to take the struggle too. Using a lie to catch a liar is a fools errand.
The polygraph industry is always trying to find new venues to exercise the trade, an example are fishing tournaments and other types of events where they can sow suspicion and fear that a contestant might cheat. Cheaters, like liars, and other lower life forms always get caught, what they are selling is just a theory of quicker self gradification.

Regards ..



Hi EOS,

I have the names of 5 examiners who qualified 'there' over the years, but who were not actually able to go out and test anybody, without remediation from colleagues.
They were happy to dish the dirt to myself and others, but not keen to tackle the Instructors and maybe put their 'accreditation' on the line.
Ditto for some of 'The truth doctor' courses. Seems like the Marston syndrome was a festering sore all this time.

APA Accreditation is as worthless as the Phd's of some the leading lights in the DOD industry.

Sincerely,





KALEX,

Whether or not I judge the person as a "Doctor of Philosophy" or a Piled Higher and Deeper type, boils down to the level and quality of research produced. Not the volume of worthless research that seems to be prevelent and done by many of the DOD (self deemed) elite. DOE is also now suffering from this same affliction, many of the great minds and scientists are bailing and going elsewhere. Soon like DOD, the best and brightest will only be 40 watt bulbs. The only saving grace are our men/women in uniform who have to execute and produce, These folks are the true national assets. But again, the best and brightest leave, leaving mainly non-performers and ticket punchers, when we need combat commanders and combat leaders, who don't give a damn about political correctness or expediency.

Regards ....
  

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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #37 - Aug 1st, 2007 at 3:10pm
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Today I met a polygraphist who told me that in his/her opinion, VSA is total BS, but that she/he was
going to acquire that technology as he/she discovered a huge, regular demand for that service.

Isn't that just so hypocritical of all us Lie-Detectors....?

We know/knew that we are/were dabbling with smoke and mirrors, yet we allowed nothing to stop us.

We justified what we did. We quoted the scientific research of our church, the APA.
We ruined lives, families and society. But we were unstoppable.

Maybe if we repent now, heaven will still let us into the room reserved for INC's.
  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #38 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 12:42pm
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Hello nonombre:

I am not ashamed of my name, it is Lloyd Ploense and I have nothing to hide from anyone.

You seem to be infected with fervor for divination in an almost religious manner.  Do you recall one Reverend Jim Jones?

As a scientist, I recognize that cold scientific instruments present many false positives and negatives.  To utilize the results of such devices one must demonstrate reasonable correlation coefficients.  Also, hypothesis testing must be performed where the statistical significance of the results are evaluated against standards, spikes and blanks.

In the case of mass spectroscopy, only a great fool would assert that detection of a peak at 28 AMU confirmed the presence of nitrogen.  We know “cold scientific instruments” have both positive and negative interferences.  Through what religion do you claim the capacity to interpret human stress responses as falsehood?
  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #39 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 3:44pm
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InnocentWithPTSD

Boy, you boggled his brain with that one. He may/may not get back to you in a month or two after he gets someone to explain, in detail, your post. He might even try to use it as a positive for polygraphy.
  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #40 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 3:57pm
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Twoblock wrote on Aug 2nd, 2007 at 3:44pm:
InnocentWithPTSD

Boy, you boggled his brain with that one. He may/may not get back to you in a month or two after he gets someone to explain, in detail, your post. He might even try to use it as a positive for polygraphy.



I agree. I read it 30  mins ago and I'm still laughing my ass off.

Never wake a sleeping giant.
  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #41 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 10:18pm
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Quote:
I am not ashamed of my name, it is Lloyd Ploense and I have nothing to hide from anyone.


InnocentWithPTSD,

Are you the same Lloyd Ploense that did the research work on "Spectroscopic promoted alkene isomerizations".
A very interesting read, and if it is,  some great work.
Another trained mind joins the fight.

Best Regards ....
  

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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #42 - Aug 3rd, 2007 at 1:52pm
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I am he Sir.

The attached file reveals why I feel strongly about the misuse of stress responses.

Lloyd Ploense

Attachment deleted at poster's request -- AntiPolygraph.org Administrator
« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2007 at 5:18pm by Administrator »  
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Re: QUESTIONS FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS
Reply #43 - Aug 4th, 2007 at 5:44am
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Quote:
I am he Sir.

The attached file reveals why I feel strongly about the misuse of stress responses.

Lloyd Ploense


Lloyd,

After reading your attachment, I can understand your polygraph position. The upside of you being here is, their is not a polygrapher who can could even match you in discourse. Nor do I think any would even try. Some of the Phd polygraphers might, but I even doubt that too. You should contact a Dr. Alan Zelicoff, Link: http://www.zelicoff.com

You and he will have many great conversations, he is another great scientist and doctor that is strongly antipolygraph. He has some great papers on the subject too.

Welcome again and regards .....
  

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