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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Countermeasure results (Read 19203 times)
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #30 - Jun 4th, 2007 at 1:28pm
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Nonombre,

Thanks for your good wishes. I am going to try and do a deal with amazon
iro sole distribution rights and see if they will absorb some of the
printing / publishing costs, base don sales of my previous book.

I wrote a book previously. It sold well. Thought I would use the same avenue
again as the % split was very fair. But, the old crowd changed hands and so
I have to start knocking on doors all over again.

This time around I want to go for a bigger market.

I think that door kicking must have made you a HBP patient.
Shit. every next time you kick a door it could be your last time.
Your family must have been very pleased when you gave that one up.

If you post from your work place and your Identity is known there, then I would understand 
that you cannot answer my next question with sincerity. 

Q: Dont you often admit to yourself that this technology has less than desirable accuracy..?

If you dont answer.....no sweat.
  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #31 - Jun 5th, 2007 at 2:17am
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Quote:
If you post from your work place and your Identity is known there, then I would understand that you cannot answer my next question with sincerity. 

Q: Dont you often admit to yourself that this technology has less than desirable accuracy..?

If you dont answer.....no sweat.


Actually I don't mind answering.  You see I am actually a fairly simple guy and I see the "accuracy" of my work this way:  I do two kinds of tests, screening and specific issue.  In the case of screening, I have found that the vast majority of the folks who fail subsequently give up disqualifying information which would preclude them from becoming police officers in the first place.

In the case of specific issue tests, even MORE of those folks who fail, subsequently confess to the crime and in many cases give me information or evidence only the guilty party would have known, in other words a "confirmed" confession.

Now I am no scientist, and don't know a whole lot about research, but as far as I am concerned, those numbers speak for the accuracy of what I do.  I have lost track of the number of good, solid, cases that would have never been made had it not been for polygraph...

But I will admit that polygraph is certainly a contraversial line of work.  There are times I wish I did something more accepted by others....

Maybe politics?

Regards,

Nonombre Cool
  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #32 - Jun 5th, 2007 at 3:35am
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Nonombre,

You can polygraph politicians !! Not only would I openly support you, I would even donate money for that, but I do believe you would have open support from all sides on this debate. When politicians and lawyers lips are moving they are lying. So on that premise, it could be a win-win for all concerned. Just a thought !!  Wink

Regards !!!
  

Theory into Reality !!
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #33 - Jun 5th, 2007 at 2:06pm
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nonombre wrote on Jun 5th, 2007 at 2:17am:
Quote:
If you post from your work place and your Identity is known there, then I would understand that you cannot answer my next question with sincerity. 

Q: Dont you often admit to yourself that this technology has less than desirable accuracy..?

If you dont answer.....no sweat.



Now I am no scientist, and don't know a whole lot about research, but as far as I am concerned, those numbers speak for the accuracy of what I do.  I have lost track of the number of good, solid, cases that would have never been made had it not been for polygraph...


Hi,

But you didn't actually quote any numbers (stats). I also scored many confessions in my time. however I agree with the viewpoint of others that DOD technology is really used to elicit confessions and cannot distinguish truth from deception with scientifically validated certainty. And therefore it is not science and should never be touted as such. 

Its an investigation / interrogation tool. Nothing more. Nothing less. 

Politics. ha. I always think of Arnie when I think of politicians. I can imagine him kicking down doors for votes. He should be tested to verify where his support truly lies. ?????
  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #34 - Jun 7th, 2007 at 5:30am
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yea... so... I didnt really follow most of the procedures explained... however i was able to use the tack in the shoe trick.  To say the least my test came back inconclusive, and the examiner said it was more on the truthful side than deceptive.  Basically he went through the same questionare of 10 questions about 5 times.  He went the through the first set and what I didnt was push on the tack to keep my heart elavated and tried to keep a steady breating rate, completely concious of my breating rate... I kept it slow and steady.  Next he the stim test i believe is what it was called.... it was the numbers test...  He told me to pick a number between 2 - 9. I picked 7,  he told me lie on that number.  So when he went thru the numbers I let off the tack at numbers 2-6, when he wanted me to lie on number 7 I pushed on the tack to make my heart rate go up, let off the tack on numbers 8-9.  After that he did the 10 question set questionare.   In which what I was hoping, I provided a false "lie" on his chart (when i pressed on the tack on the number 7 during the stim test).  I proceeded to Press on the tack the whole time during the questionare, when I answered the question I let off the tack. I mixed it u a little as I really wasnt sure what I was doing... So afterawhile I just pressed on the tack trying to raise my heartrate DURING when the question  was asked,  I answered then let off tack.  I stepped on the tack... and raised my heartrate as soon as he begin the next question.  All the while I kept my breathing rate steady.  I think it worked as he said my results were inconclusive and more on the truthful side.  What do you guys think?  Did I do it right?  Well I know it worked... but I would like to perfect it more... as I may have more polygraphs latter.... In fact I think the polygrapher was mad, cuz he was like and I quote, " You'll probably be seeing me later down the road."
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2007 at 9:01am by IbeatTheSystem »  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #35 - Jun 9th, 2007 at 4:00pm
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I wouldn't classify an inconclusive result as a win.  I've never tried the tack in the shoe CM because it seems too difficult for me to employ.  What was the purpose of this exam?  Seems to me that he meant you will be retaking a poly in the near future due to the inconclusive result.
  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #36 - Jun 11th, 2007 at 3:48pm
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I think the 'tack in shoe' tactic is about the dumbest ever.
I mean, what is the examiner supposed to think when subjects come limping into
the examination room. If the tack isnt making contact when they walk, then they
basically have no chance to make it work later in the test - any subject doing the
'foot jive' would automatically give themselves away.

Control and selective manipulation of breathing, coupled with distracted focus
is the way to go....but one does need a fair amount of IQ to get it right.

I wonder if there's a market for an 'anti-poly wonder tack'.
Works by remote control of a switch linked to the sphincter.
Activating yr sphincter creates 1 CM response while the electric tack shocks the 
hell out of you - sending your GSR soaring.

Just a thought. Use it. Dont use it.
  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #37 - Jun 12th, 2007 at 6:43am
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Quote:
I think the 'tack in shoe' tactic is about the dumbest ever.
I mean, what is the examiner supposed to think when subjects come limping into
the examination room. If the tack isnt making contact when they walk, then they
basically have no chance to make it work later in the test - any subject doing the
'foot jive' would automatically give themselves away.


You took the words right out of my mouth, but I was trying to be... (wait for it)... TACTFUL!  LOL
  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #38 - Jun 13th, 2007 at 2:34pm
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Quote:
Quote:


You took the words right out of my mouth, but I was trying to be... (wait for it)... TACTFUL!  LOL



Good One..!!!!
Damn. I wish I had said that.

On a different tack however..(haha) I am somewhat amused by the crop of of people visiting this site,
that have dodgy backgrounds ( " I did some stuff, but i'm law abiding now" ) and whom want to become
law enforcement officers...? Go figure.

I wonder if anyone has ever undertaken any psychological research into why people (to differing degrees) with criminal history become so hell bent on becoming Cops. Do you think that they have
a different perception of what the uniform stands for - as compared to normal people?

Do they perceive the uniform as a means to commit criminal acts without the usual fear of being apprehended ? 

Do they perceive cops as being criminals with sponsored clothing ?

Reading world news, it seems to be a common thread running through many societies.

Time to muse.
  
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #39 - Jun 14th, 2007 at 7:48am
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Quote:

On a different tack however..(haha) I am somewhat amused by the crop of of people visiting this site,
that have dodgy backgrounds ( " I did some stuff, but i'm law abiding now" ) and whom want to become
law enforcement officers...? Go figure.

I wonder if anyone has ever undertaken any psychological research into why people (to differing degrees) with criminal history become so hell bent on becoming Cops. Do you think that they have
a different perception of what the uniform stands for - as compared to normal people?

Do they perceive the uniform as a means to commit criminal acts without the usual fear of being apprehended ? 

Do they perceive cops as being criminals with sponsored clothing ?

Reading world news, it seems to be a common thread running through many societies.

Time to muse.

I think it is likely that many people today do whatever they like the majority of the time, especially younger people.  They don't give much thought to what is legal or illegal, only to what their friends are doing and what seems like fun.

Fast forward a couple of years and they decide they'd like to pursue a career that tends not to hire people who behaved irresponsibly over an extended period of time, or showed a very significant lack of judgment a limited number of times, or even a single time.

Many of these people feel completely comfortable decrying the unfairness and the illogic of disqualifying police applicants for activities many of their friends engaged in regularly.  They have a very difficult time recognizing their past behavior as irresponsible and lacking in good judgment because they and all of their friends engaged in it regularly.  Their barometer is off; they see such behavior as normal and don't understand that other people, even in their teen-age years, were able to recognize hallucinogen usage as wrong, and were able to recognize shoplifting as wrong, and were able to recognize selling their parent's prescriptions was wrong, etc...

I don't believe children are born with any sort of moral compass.  It must be instilled in them by their parents. 

When it is not, they become used to doing whatever they want and whatever feels good.  When they are later told that their past behavior is unacceptable they become indignant.
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Countermeasure results
Reply #40 - Jun 15th, 2007 at 2:07pm
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Hi, I more or less agree with your viewpoint. It is a subject that a few people could debate, with only slightly differing viewpoints, yet for hours on end.

I come from a dysfunctional family background. My father was a rogue.
looking back, i am convinced that he was a sociopath. He defied rules ans
laws; lived by his own credo and pretty much justified eveything that he
did. 

Which makes me an exception to the rule. I had no positive role models.
We used to move home at midnight. Not just changing neighbourhoods -
we used to move hundreds of miles at a time.

I was poorly educated, until I left home at age 16 and went my own way. 
I put myself through college. Held down decent jobs. Attended further learning 
courses. Opened my own businesses, made profit, sold and moved on.
I found my niche in investigation - I guess I always had an innate knack to
'read' people. Fraud investigation led me to the DOD industry. Some years
back I invested with a property club and can now indulge myself somewhat.

My father really led a miserable life. He married a woman that gave him back
all his BS in spades.

And now I have 2 spoiled brats that pretty much fit your story.

Fun, isn't it...?


  
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