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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic (Read 48743 times)
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #30 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 5:38pm
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Paradiddle wrote on Oct 4th, 2007 at 5:20pm:
Again you strike me as being grandiose with your treatment of the subject of polygraph. Your psuedo-passionate martyrdom reeks.


ParaDiddle,

You strike me as being grandiose with your treatment of subjects. Deflect and redirect as you may  ......

The debate is most enjoyable.

Regards .....
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #31 - Oct 5th, 2007 at 1:28am
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Paradiddle wrote on Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:20pm:
.....only a pussy would compare a mere polygraph examination to a generalized lengthy interrogation.

When you resort to name calling it does not indicate you are debating from a position of strength.
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous Ítes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #32 - Oct 5th, 2007 at 1:41am
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Oct 5th, 2007 at 1:28am:
Paradiddle wrote on Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:20pm:
.....only a pussy would compare a mere polygraph examination to a generalized lengthy interrogation.

When you resort to name calling it does not indicate you are debating from a position of strength.


Granted, I was being flippent over the gross victimization of the ranks who compare the (albeit unpleasent) 3 hour polygraph test with smoke, soft drink, and bathroom breaks---compared with an 8 hour accusation fest, where the suspect is a pinata while the ego-smashing barbs from the mouths of detectives berate and echo repeated abuse.
To rephrase, only a self victimizing weakling would compare the relative "face slap" (poly test)to a piano falling on the head (marathon torture session.) Thanks for correcting me "Sarge", I must have had a headache when I wrote that.
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #33 - Oct 5th, 2007 at 1:43am
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Agreed Serg i notice a lot of that coming from the pgs whats up with all of the name calling...
  
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #34 - Oct 5th, 2007 at 2:33am
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The name calling stems from the fact that for many years now our ranks have been dragged through the mud over and over and over and over----and again. When you ask so incredulously "why all the name calling" you remind me of an American white man asking foolishly "why do black folks seem so angry?" Incidentally, I am proud of much of the restraint of my brethren, considering that many of the ranks around here disrespect their life's work and their want for safer streets. No brutality, just strictures mind you.
« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2007 at 5:44pm by Paradiddle »  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #35 - Oct 5th, 2007 at 5:09am
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Paradiddle wrote on Oct 5th, 2007 at 1:41am:
Sergeant1107 wrote on Oct 5th, 2007 at 1:28am:
Paradiddle wrote on Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:20pm:
.....only a pussy would compare a mere polygraph examination to a generalized lengthy interrogation.

When you resort to name calling it does not indicate you are debating from a position of strength.


Granted, I was being flippent over the gross victimization of the ranks who compare the (albeit unpleasent) 3 hour polygraph test with smoke, soft drink, and bathroom breaks---compared with an 8 hour accusation fest, where the suspect is a pinata while the ego-smashing barbs from the mouths of detectives berate and echo repeated abuse.
To rephrase, only a self victimizing weakling would compare the relative "face slap" (poly test)to a piano falling on the head (marathon torture session.) Thanks for correcting me "Sarge", I must have had a headache when I wrote that.


I've said it before, and I'll say it again; a step in the wrong direction is a step in the wrong direction.

As for isolating the polygraph's impact on the psyche from the less sophistacated means of confession extraction. I would once again point out that Jeffrey was interrogated on several occasions, with all the usual intimidation tactics being employed. There was a extremely hostile interrogation on both Jan 10th and Jan 25th if memory of the case report serves me. On both occasions, the investigator pushed HARD for that elusive confession,  but on the 10th, all he got was a map of the crime scene [a.k.a. "the pit"]. The interagator knew that he needed a confession to make a case against the kid. So he asked Jeffrey to take a little polygraph test, but the report makes a direct point that this test was arranged for the "sole purpose of obtaining a confession." The examiner graded Jeffrey as inconclusive, so the investigator decided to make a little white lie, and tell Jeffrey that he had failed. Things then got very confrontational, and jeffrey confessed. In a sense, they repeated the same interrogation keeping all things constant except for the polygraph. How do you explain why Jeffrey was vehemently protesting his innocence on Jan 10th, but gave into oppresion and confessed on Jan 25th? All the same dirty tactics were used in both cases. Only one thing changed at the end of the day. Furthermore, if the investigator had no other intention other than to get a confession out of that kid, why did he go to trouble of getting a polygrapher. What was he hoping to achieve with the polygraph if not the classifaction of guilt or innocence? The report made it quite clear that there was no doubt in the investigator's mind that Jeffrey was guilty well into December.

We all understand that a girl died in this tragedy; I don't need a patronizing reminder. There's nothing shameful about trying to prevent it from happening again. I believe the polygraph caused an innocent person to be convicted by playing a direct and prominent role in inducing a false confession. I don't have a personal incentive or financial motive to end the polygraph profession, so I don't at all feel selfish by arguing my opinion to anyone who will listen. I feel it is my responsibility, as a free citizen, to do nothing less.

P.S. Sorry if that last part was a little patronizing.
  
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #36 - Oct 6th, 2007 at 3:30pm
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Brettski: Quote:
The interagator knew that he needed a confession to make a case against the kid. So he asked Jeffrey to take a little polygraph test, but the report makes a direct point that this test was arranged for the "sole purpose of obtaining a confession." The examiner graded Jeffrey as inconclusive, so the investigator decided to make a little white lie, and tell Jeffrey that he had failed.


Tell how you know these intimate details. This seems like self-serving embellishment.

Quote:
We all understand that a girl died in this tragedy; I don't need a patronizing reminder.


Yes you do. Her name was Angela Correa. She was 15 years old. She had a family that missed her. She was rapped and strangled and beaten and killed.

This young man's name is Jeffrey Deskovic. He is now known to be a victim or casualty of a faulty investigation and faulty legal proceedings.

Unless you think them inherently evil, the investigators and courts were attempting to solve a murder.

Quote:
There's nothing shameful about trying to prevent it from happening again.


No problem there.

Quote:
I believe the polygraph caused an innocent person to be convicted by playing a direct and prominent role in inducing a false confession.


Beliefs are fine, but they are just beliefs. Its not the polygraph test that got the false confession. Its the interrogation that followed.

If that interrogation was as flawed as has been presented, its quite possible the investigator would have pursued that matter with or without the polygraph.

Please honor the fact that these are people's lives, and stop with the self-serving embellishment. Its not at all compassionate or humane.
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #37 - Oct 7th, 2007 at 1:48am
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Quote:
Tell how you know these intimate details. This seems like self-serving embellishment.


He likely knew this because the police used a polygraph in the case--for the same reason it is almost always used.

They had a weak case that had no chance of a successful prosecution without a home-run confession.
  
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #38 - Oct 8th, 2007 at 1:45pm
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So Gino,

Would you cite this case as an example of the need to ban police investigators from obtaining confessions? Or, would you suppose this is an example of the need for better oversight and protocol?

  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #39 - Oct 9th, 2007 at 11:30pm
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Ludovico wrote on Oct 6th, 2007 at 3:30pm:
Brettski: Quote:
The interagator knew that he needed a confession to make a case against the kid. So he asked Jeffrey to take a little polygraph test, but the report makes a direct point that this test was arranged for the "sole purpose of obtaining a confession." The examiner graded Jeffrey as inconclusive, so the investigator decided to make a little white lie, and tell Jeffrey that he had failed.


Tell how you know these intimate details. This seems like self-serving embellishment.



Ludovico,

I did no such thing, I know these facts from carefully reading the Winchester county report on the false conviction:

https://antipolygraph.org/yabbfiles/Attachments/Jeffrey_Deskovic_Comm_Rpt.pdf

and Matt Elweig's article on the issue:

http://adowntownreporter.blogspot.com/2006/11/someone-elses-time-jeff-deskovic-s...

They were both posted by George on this thread some time ago. As the case report states that the polygraph examer, Investigator Stephens, proceeded with the "avowed purpose of which was to elecit a confession" [pg 14].  I mentioned the report in passing because I had assumed everyone knew what I was referring too, and had read the material for themselves. It is rediculous to argue that post test interviews occured in isolation of the polygraph test. Obtaining confessions has always been an important selling point of the polygraph profession; and they're dangerously effective.

I still remember Angela's name, Ludovico. I mention it sparringly out of respect for her family. Unlike certain individuals who would call them into public eye over and over again while ostensibly posing as there self-proclaimed protector. If you really cared about comforting her family, I would suggest leaving them out of this debate. You seem very informed about how people ought to behave. However, I do not see the direct connection between saying that Jeffrey's false confession was caused by a polygraph, and causing pain and suffering for the Angela's family.

Also, I do not accuse the investigors responsible for this case of being evil... sigh.
  
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #40 - Oct 10th, 2007 at 12:40am
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Paradiddle wrote on Oct 5th, 2007 at 2:33am:
The name calling stems from the fact that for many years now our ranks have been dragged through the mud over and over and over and over----and again. When you ask so incredulously "why all the name calling" you remind me of an American white man asking foolishly "why do black folks seem so angry?" Incidentally, I am proud of much of the restraint of my brethren, considering that many of the ranks around here disrespect their life's work and their want for safer streets. No brutality, just strictures mind you.


so have lawyers and many other professions....grow up no need for the ''ad hom'' attacks. you remind me of the little kid who doesnt get his way and takes his ball and goes home. go home.... PD go home...
  
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #41 - Oct 10th, 2007 at 12:55am
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tbld wrote on Oct 10th, 2007 at 12:40am:
Paradiddle wrote on Oct 5th, 2007 at 2:33am:
The name calling stems from the fact that for many years now our ranks have been dragged through the mud over and over and over and over----and again. When you ask so incredulously "why all the name calling" you remind me of an American white man asking foolishly "why do black folks seem so angry?" Incidentally, I am proud of much of the restraint of my brethren, considering that many of the ranks around here disrespect their life's work and their want for safer streets. No brutality, just strictures mind you.


so have lawyers and many other professions....grow up no need for the ''ad hom'' attacks. you remind me of the little kid who doesnt get his way and takes his ball and goes home. go home.... PD go home...


This site extends beyond criticisms and lampooning of polygraph (corrected type-o)examiners. This site is one great big ad hom attack on every examiner who seeks to conduct fair tests in order to insure safer streets---and once more this site empowers sex offenders to disengage from their treatment and supervision protocol under false pretense. So, my question †to you oh "tbld" activist against polygraph----is, why are you reminded of a kid? Do you like "little kids" Woody?
« Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2007 at 2:13am by Paradiddle »  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #42 - Oct 10th, 2007 at 1:20am
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Paradiddle wrote on Oct 10th, 2007 at 12:55am:
tbld wrote on Oct 10th, 2007 at 12:40am:
[quote author=Paradiddle link=1158809927/30#34 date=1191551618]The name calling stems from the fact that for many years now our ranks have been dragged through the mud over and over and over and over----and again. When you ask so incredulously "why all the name calling" you remind me of an American white man asking foolishly "why do black folks seem so angry?" Incidentally, I am proud of much of the restraint of my brethren, considering that many of the ranks around here disrespect their life's work and their want for safer streets. No brutality, just strictures mind you.




This site extends beyond criticisms and lampooning of polygaph examiners. This site is one great big ad hom attack on every examiner who seeks to conduct fair tests in order to insure safer streets---and once more this site empowers sex offenders to disengage from their treatment and supervision protocol under false pretense. So, my question †to you oh "tbld" activist against polygraph----is, why are you reminded of a kid? Do you like "little kids" Woody?


First its ''polygraph'' not polgaph( you think you would know how to spell it since you are a pg...you are arent you?)  Wink  Someone needs a nap oh cranky crankifier...Got to love the ''quotations'' i know i ''do'' and what happened to buck-o?
Regards
''tbld''
  
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #43 - Oct 10th, 2007 at 1:22am
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Oct 5th, 2007 at 1:28am:
Paradiddle wrote on Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:20pm:
.....only a pussy would compare a mere polygraph examination to a generalized lengthy interrogation.

When you resort to name calling it does not indicate you are debating from a position of strength.




Sarge said it best btw.....
  
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #44 - Oct 10th, 2007 at 1:36am
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tbld: Are you still riding Sarge's coat tail?   Kiss
  
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