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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic (Read 48759 times)
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #15 - Oct 3rd, 2007 at 8:42pm
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I never said the polygrapher "had no hand" in this, it is just that when you hear of marathon interrogations----some even lasting days, usually the examiner has left the building long before detectives lose their fucking minds. I would like more details. The victim may have passed his test and the detectives may have decided to "not have it." You know exactly 2 things about what actually happened there----jack and shit. Since that era, confessions are not as valuable (for good reason) and/or "end all" when placed before a triar of fact---due not to polygraph interrogations, but garden variety 12 hour interrogation "confessions."  Read a book once in a while, will ya?
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #16 - Oct 3rd, 2007 at 10:21pm
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Paradiddle wrote on Oct 3rd, 2007 at 8:42pm:
I never said the polygrapher "had no hand" in this, it is just that when you hear of marathon interrogations----some even lasting days, usually the examiner has left the building long before detectives lose their fucking minds. I would like more details. The victim may have passed his test and the detectives may have decided to "not have it." You know exactly 2 things about what actually happened there----jack and shit. Since that era, confessions are not as valuable (for good reason) and/or "end all" when placed before a triar of fact---due not to polygraph interrogations, but garden variety 12 hour interrogation "confessions."  Read a book once in a while, will ya?



ParaDiddle,

I do read, everything available !!!

Should be quite interesting to see this play out .....

Regards .....
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #17 - Oct 3rd, 2007 at 11:14pm
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EosJupiter wrote on Oct 3rd, 2007 at 10:21pm:
Paradiddle wrote on Oct 3rd, 2007 at 8:42pm:
I never said the polygrapher "had no hand" in this, it is just that when you hear of marathon interrogations----some even lasting days, usually the examiner has left the building long before detectives lose their fucking minds. I would like more details. The victim may have passed his test and the detectives may have decided to "not have it." You know exactly 2 things about what actually happened there----jack and shit. Since that era, confessions are not as valuable (for good reason) and/or "end all" when placed before a triar of fact---due not to polygraph interrogations, but garden variety 12 hour interrogation "confessions."  Read a book once in a while, will ya?



ParaDiddle,

I do read, everything available !!!

Should be quite interesting to see this play out .....

Regards .....


I believe Amazon has this book available;

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Every-Session-Count-Getting/dp/157224190X/ref=sr_1_6/...
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #18 - Oct 3rd, 2007 at 11:39pm
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Paradiddle wrote on Oct 3rd, 2007 at 11:14pm:


Paradiddle,

Since we are sharing literary recommendations ... try these two ... and actually understand what are the real principles on why your polygraph works.  And the bio-chemical activators that cause the reactions you so love to graph with your machine.
Now we can start our own book club !!!

http://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Neuroscience-Second-Michael-Gazzaniga/dp/0393977...

http://www.amazon.com/Number-Sense-Mind-Creates-Mathematics/dp/0195132408/ref=pd...

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ludovico
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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #19 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 12:10am
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Despite the desperate desires to turn this into a poly bashing fest,

the known facts seem to be these,

  • Angela Correa (age 15) was raped, beaten, and stranggled on 11/15/89
  • Jeffery Deskovic was identified as a suspect
  • a polygraph was conducted
  • Jeffry Deskovic did not confess to the polygraph examiner
  • he is reported to have confessed to a police interviewer after what is described in the NY times as a lengthy, 5 or 6 hour, interview
  • Jeffry Deskovic was convicted on his confession and was incarcerated for 16 years
  • DNA exonerated Jeffrey Deskovic as the source of semen obtained from the victim, Angela Correa
  • DNA matched that of a man who is serving time for another Westchester murder
  • The murder was not named in the NY times article, but is reported to have confessed to killing Angela Correa


We also know there is no continuous recording of the polygraph or interview.

Speculations about the test itself, are just that - speculations.

FERNANDA SANTOS NY Times 9/21/06: Quote:
Mr. Scheck said that Mr. Deskovic was the 184th person nationwide to be exonerated because of DNA evidence since 1989, and that his case highlights the importance of having the authorities videotape interviews with suspects, as many police departments nationwide have begun to do.

“We’ve learned a lot about false confessions in the past decade,” Mr. Scheck said at a news conference. “Videotaping of confessions and training of police officers can definitely lead to different results.”


FERNANDA SANTOS NY Times 9/21/06: Quote:
In convicting Mr. Deskovic, the jury effectively chose to give more weight to his tearful confession than to the DNA and other scientific evidence.

The conviction seemed to indicate that jurors believed the prosecution theory that semen found in Ms. Correa’s body was likely from a consensual sexual relationship with someone else.

Many convicted criminals were compelled to give DNA samples in recent years, and the source of the semen in the victim’s body was apparently identified that way. Until such database comparisons were available, there was no way for Mr. Deskovic to disprove the prosecution’s theory, because there was no way to pinpoint whose semen it was.


JONATHAN BANDLER THE JOURNAL NEWS 9/21/2006: Quote:
Before trial, prosecutors learned that DNA evidence from Correa did not match Deskovic. But they went ahead, relying on the confession.


It was not the polygraph that put this young man in prison for so long. The polygraph is just a test. Without looking at the data we don't really know anything except what we have read about that test. There are many more powerful factors here than the polygraph test.

Matt Elzweig, Our Town Downtown 11/13/2006: Quote:
Who knows if Jeff Deskovic would have eventually gotten out by virtue of the fact that the old DNA technology had excluded him as a suspect when compared to the DNA found on the victim, but most important to getting him out of prison was the NY State DNA databank, a state version of the FBI’s CODIS (Combined DNA Index System), which was not fully operational until 1998. With it, it suddenly became possible to test Deskovic’s DNA against a huge database of offenders. This is how Steven Cunningham, who actually raped and killed Angela Correa, was found.


At the time he admitted to killing Angela Correa, Steven Cunningham was reportedly incarcerated for another murder which occurred after Jeffrey Deskovic was convicted.

We do not know whether Steven Cunningham had been identified as a suspect or person of interest during the investigation of Angela Correa's murder.

Absolutely no-one with any sense of human decency can take any pleasure in this series of tragedies.

JONATHAN BANDLER THE JOURNAL NEWS 9/21/2006: Quote:
Morrison and Barry Scheck, co-founder of the Innocence Project, said it was remarkable how quickly the case turned around in just a few months. They credited Westchester District Attorney Janet DiFiore for pushing the county forensics lab to test the DNA samples that had been saved.

DiFiore was not in the courtroom but she said later that prosecutors had fulfilled their legal obligations in the case over the years but that more had to be done.

"This case is really about what our moral obligation is," she said. "This was a very righteously prosecuted and investigated case. It's a very dramatic reminder to all of us that the system is not infallible."


Quote:
No one becomes a polygraph examiner or police interrogator in the hope of obtaining false confessions and sending the innocent to prison. To the polygraph examiners who follow this message board: please take the lessons of the Jeffrey Deskovic case to heart rather than seeking rationalizations for what happened. Read the full report and learn from it. If you're not already doing so, start recording your examinations from beginning to end, and don't say or do anything in the polygraph suite that you'd be embarrassed or ashamed to have seen and heard by a judge and jury.


No disagreement with that.

We do know that factors associated with false confessions include young age, lengthy confrontational interviews, developmental or psychological difficulties, and of course, torture.

Jeffrey Deskovic is described by reporters as a youth with psychological, social or developmental difficulties, but the details are unclear. He is reported to have told the investigator that the sometimes heard voices that made him do things he shouldn't.

Brettski wrote on Jul 13th, 2007 at 3:51am:
After having read the report, I'm skocked by the revelation that 24% of false convictions are due to false confessions.


Be a little careful. The report doesn't say 24% of false convictions; it say 24% of the 180 false convictions that were later overturned by DNA evidence. Its very important, and very interesting, but we don't know exactly how that figure generalizes to false convictions as a whole.

Banging the drum for your personal satisfaction re "polygraph interrogation" is self-serving. This case is not really about the polygraph.

So,

Try, people, not to take so much personal pleasure in these persons' tremendous misfortunes.

A young girl was raped and killed, a family lost a daughter, and a young man lost 16 years of his life - a reminder that this is serious work.

l
« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2007 at 12:34am by Ludovico »  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #20 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 12:35am
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Ludovico,

You will get not get an argument that the murder and rape of this young person is truly sad. I feel for the family and even after all this time believe that they still must grieve.  Injury  to children is the most abherrent of behaviors. And punishment should be swift and severe. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Diversion from the thread again ... stay on point.

The bottom line is that the over zealousness of the investigative process put a young man in jail for 16 years. Punished for nothing more than not having the psychological/ emotional/ physical stamina to resist professional interrogators, because their hunches told them this kid was guilty. The polygrapher is included, and is as much the cause for this egregious miscarriage of justice. The burden placed on this kid during a polygraph exam must have been immense to cause the mind to resort to fetal position protection. We know who he (the polygrapher) is, why don't you get him to come on the board, through your polygrapher connections. Give him space to present his side of the story. Always 2 sides to every story. Getting his story and inputs would be of great interest. And from connections within the Innocence Project, there are more of these cases coming.

Regards .....
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #21 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 12:42am
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EOS,

Neither you nor anyone else can prove the polygraph caused this miscarriage of justice, and its self-serving of you to continue to suggest the polygraph caused this tragedy.

I don't disagree with taking a lesson about the need for conscientious and accurate policework, and recorded interviews.

Give it a rest.
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #22 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:22am
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Certainly there was more involved in Jeffrey Deskovic's false confession (and wrongful confession) than just the polygraph. But Paradiddle's suggestion that the polygraph played no more a role in it than the polygrapher's wearing a bowtie would have is an example of precisely the kind of rationalization against which I warned.

Let us not lose sight of the fact that the interrogation that led to Deskovic's false confession began as a polygraph "test." Deskovic was innocent so he should have passed, right? But presumably he didn't. It appears that the polygraph failed spectacularly in Deskovic's case. To the extent that Deskovic's interrogators believed in the pseudoscience of polygraphy, they may well have interrogated him more harshly than they would have had he not "failed" this scientifically baseless test.
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #23 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 5:02am
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George,

There you go turning this thing to some self-serving purpose again. A girl, Angela Correa, died in a truly awful manner. No one now disputes Jeffrey Deskovic's innocence. But your shifting this around to a polygraph issue is not very compassionate at all. The report prepared for Janet DiFiore identifies an alarming number of human failings in this investigation and conviction.

All of those people (Angela Correa's family, Jeffrey Deskovic, and his family) deserve some peace and resolution. Stirring things here does not help them, but serves only yourselves.

It is vitally important to learn from this, but keep it humane, will ya.

l
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #24 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 5:31am
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I'm not "shifting this around to a polygraph issue." Clearly, the polygraph is not solely responsible for Jeffrey Deskovic's plight, and I never suggested that it was. But this is, among other things, a polygraph issue: the polygraph played an important role in the injustice inflicted upon Mr. Deskovic, who himself evidently recognizes this to be the case, as he has named his polygrapher, Daniel Stephens, as a respondent in his lawsuit.
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #25 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 1:26pm
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I vehemently disagree. This was not a polygraph issue, this was an interrogation issue. The polygraph was the best scapegoat, and you know it George.
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #26 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 3:38pm
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ParaDiddle,

And the polygraph is a tool used in interrogations, the polygrapher is an interrogator, thus using this tool to extract confessions. SHow me where the connection breaks.


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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #27 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:20pm
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Same reason that the interrogations at Abu Graibe and Gitmo were/are not at the hands of polygraph examiners. A big difference is that our examinees get smoke breaks and bathroom breaks and tests are not endless whereas generalized interrogaters are far less self-restricted and/or accomodating with their subjects. Ask the Taliban or any Gangsta Disciple. Get over your decompartmentalization.....only a pussy would compare a mere polygraph examination to a generalized lengthy interrogation.
  

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #28 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:39pm
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ParaDiddle,

Different rules for the same game. A smoker who needs a nicotine fix can not focus, someone with the need to use the bathroom cannot  focus or function until relief happens, breaks allow the subjects more time to do introspection before returning to the polysuite, adding to the effects desired. Each part of your process has a designed purpose. You minimalize the polygraph test, while knowing full well its capabilities are to be just as brutal to the human mind as any torture device. Except it leaves no external marks. Internal well thats another discussion.

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Re: DNA Frees Polygraph Victim Jeffrey Mark Deskovic
Reply #29 - Oct 4th, 2007 at 5:20pm
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Again you strike me as being grandiose with your treatment of the subject of polygraph. Your psuedo-passionate martyrdom reeks.
  

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