Any comments on the polygraph tests that  Ed Gelb gave to John and Patsy Ramsey re: the murder of John Benet Ramsey?

Here is a link:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/time_11.html

Well, the Ramsey's were cleared by the polygraph given by Gelb, but the police did not accept that conclusion because an FBI examiner did not administer the exam.  The police claim that Gelb did not have enough privileged information to be able to conduct an adequate exam, but the questions seemed straightforward to me.

So, there are several questions here:

1.Do examiners agree with the police that the Gelb exam was not good enough?

2. Were the Ramsey’s educated about the working of the polygraph?  If so, did they use CMs to protect their innocence?

3. What if the results of the exam did NOT clear them; what would that mean to the polygraph community given current findings?

4. Does anyone know of a widely public case where the accused failed a polygraph and were later cleared by additional evidence or a court of law? Or vice-a-versa?

Eos/underlyingtruth:

I can't speak to what the Feds would have done but I will say that there is a lot of jealousy between the FBI and PDs when it comes to sharing  info. etc. etc.   This of course hinders investigations.  I think both parties are guilty of this to some extent. I hope it has improved since 911.

I agree that the use of a polygrpah is a good pyschological tool in conjunction with "good" interrogation techniques.  I dont think I use "brutal"
techniques but then again what do you mean by brutal. The most I will do is raise my voice or emphasis certain words but I dont do anything that I think is brutal.

I dont know all of  the facts to make a judgement on the Gelb exam. All PDs want their own man to give the polygraph. BTW if it is true that Gelb does not posess a phd then I would  be speptical of his work.

Regarding underlying's fourth question.   I am rushed writing this post and cant think of any off the top of my head but there is plentry on both sides.

retcopper wrote on Aug 17^th, 2006 at 9:55pm:


And that stinks.  You would think all cops would want to be on the same side, not fighting each other in some territorial size contest.

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It probably did for a while, until the sense of safety that we were lulled to sleep by returned.  I bet turf wars go on now as we speak, and not infrequently.

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Well, retcop, that's about what it is.  A tool, used to play upon someone's psyche, that is necessarily bolstered by interrogation.  When questioning gets nowhere, and the subject agrees to a poly and fails, subsequently confessing, that's as close to a decent use of the poly as you can get.

Consider a sphygmomanometer: a blood pressure cuff with a squeeze bulb.  It doesn't work by itself, because you can't read the systolic and diastolic from the needle on the gauge.  You need a stethoscope, too.  Conversely, you can't hear someone's BP.  If you carry a stethoscope, you need a sphyg. to get the whole picture.

So it is with the poly.  By itself, it's traces on paper or a screen- a fancy BFB readout.  With interrogation, it's worth about half a buttock against the ignorant person (assuming they are lying and the readouts aren't from something else, which they well could be), and useless against the informed.  And to be honest, people have a right to be informed, and to be dealt with honestly.

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Turf war alert!  If polyboys are "qualified", then why should the LAPD care if the FBI conducts it?  Not a good reflection on those meant to protect and serve.

Good to hear, also, that someone who is pro-poly cares about honesty and straight dealing in terms of qualifications.  I have no right to call myself an MD, so let Gelb show his doctorate, or let him quit talking about it... 

In view of recent developments strongly indicating that John Mark Karr did not kill JonBenet Ramsey, it now seems clear that Karr's "confession" sheds no light on the accuracy of the results of Ed Gelb's polygraph examinations of John and Patsy Ramsey.

See "No DNA match, no JonBenet charges" on CNN.com:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/28/ramsey.arrest/index.html

The Boulder, Colorado district attorney's motion to quash Karr's arrest warrant may be downloaded from CNN.com here:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/08/28/karr.mot.to.quash.pdf