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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ (Read 14970 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mr. Mystery
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Apr 27th, 2006 at 3:14am
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Unless the child's father was trained to be a polygraph operator by the Canadian army it is unlikely he recieved any special training with regard to the polygraph.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #1 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 8:00am
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Micki,

Anyone can beat the polygraph. You don't have to receive special military training or be in denial. Detailed information on how to fool the polygraph is available right here on this website and is easily found by anyone who seeks it. See Chapters 3 & 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector:

http://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf

Polygraphy has no scientific basis to begin with, and a passed (or failed) polygraph "test" is evidence of nothing. The court should give no weight to polygraph results.
  

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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #2 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 4:08pm
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Anyone can beat the polygraph. You don't have to receive special military training or be in denial. Detailed information on how to fool the polygraph is available right here on this website and is easily found by anyone who seeks it. See Chapters 3 & 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector:

Incorrect statement, I test many that have read your book and they do not pass!!!!!   Persons that have mental problems and believe their own lies have nothing to fear, because they are in denial.  The Social Worker is correct in that assesment. 
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #3 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 4:17pm
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detector1012000 wrote on Apr 27th, 2006 at 4:08pm:
Incorrect statement, I test many that have read your book and they do not pass!!!!!   Persons that have mental problems and believe their own lies have nothing to fear, because they are in denial.  The Social Worker is correct in that assesment. 


It is you and your fellow polygraphers who are in denial, my friend. No polygrapher has ever demonstrated any ability to reliably detect polygraph countermeasures, and the available peer-reviewed research suggests they can't. The same research (see studies by Honts et al., citations provided in the bibliography of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector) also showed that with a maximum of 30 minutes coaching, half of test subjects examined were able to fool the polygraph. Of course, those facing the polygraph have a lot more than 30 minutes in which to prepare themselves.
  

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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #4 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 4:19pm
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You cited one study by Honts, which is an older study.  You have failed several polygraph examinations and are an expert on how to pass??????????????
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #5 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 5:23pm
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detector1012000 wrote on Apr 27th, 2006 at 4:19pm:
You cited one study by Honts, which is an older study.  You have failed several polygraph examinations and are an expert on how to pass??????????????


Actually, I'm citing two peer-reviewd studies by Honts et al. There have been no major advancements in CQT polygraphy since they were published. The fact that I have failed two (not "several") polygraph examinations despite telling the truth -- at a time when I knew nothing of countermeasures -- has no bearing on the validity of my arguments.

Again, no polygrapher has ever demonstrated any ability to reliably detect the kinds of countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
  

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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #6 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 6:58pm
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And have you personally passed a polygraph examination using your methodology?  If so please cite where and when.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #7 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 7:30pm
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detector1012000 wrote on Apr 27th, 2006 at 6:58pm:
And have you personally passed a polygraph examination using your methodology?  If so please cite where and when.


No. After my polygraph experience, and knowing what I now know about polygraphy, I find it hard to imagine any situation in which I would agree to subject myself to a polygraphic lie test.

But the information provided in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is not based on personal experience. It's based on well-documented research, with references to primary sources that skeptical readers may check for themselves.

By contrast, polygraphers' claims that they can detect countermeasures are completely unsupported by any published research whatsoever, nor are there any book chapters or journal articles that explain how to detect countermeasures.
  

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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #8 - Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:07pm
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There will not be any publications on countermeasures by the polygraph industry.  The reason is quite simple, you would request the documentation via FOIA and publish it here.  Countermeasures are detected on a regular basis which disqualifes the applicant from further processing. 

With regards to the research by Hont's, his research sparked examiners to do research and we now have some very good methods of deteting them.  There will be no answer too the challenge to demonstrate this.  Again the reason, we will not divulge our methods so you can find other ways to defeat polygraph while being untruthful.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #9 - Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:15pm
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detector1012000 wrote on Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:07pm:
There will not be any publications on countermeasures by the polygraph industry.  The reason is quite simple, you would request the documentation via FOIA and publish it here.  Countermeasures are detected on a regular basis which disqualifes the applicant from further processing. 

With regards to the research by Hont's, his research sparked examiners to do research and we now have some very good methods of deteting them.  There will be no answer too the challenge to demonstrate this.  Again the reason, we will not divulge our methods so you can find other ways to defeat polygraph while being untruthful. 


Oh, I see. Well, impartial readers will have to judge for themselves the relative merits of the documented information on polygraph procedure and countermeasures presented in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and the completely unsupported, self-serving claims of those who make a living giving polygraph tests.
  

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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #10 - Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:19pm
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Correct, and we don't need to support our methods of detecting countermeasures, they are abundantly clear to the trained professional.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #11 - Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:24pm
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detector1012000 wrote on Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:19pm:
Correct, and we don't need to support our methods of detecting countermeasures, they are abundantly clear to the trained professional. 


Polygraphers only need to support their claimed ability to detect countermeasures (which does not necessarily entail disclosing the methods) if they wish non-polygraphers to believe them.
  

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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #12 - Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:57pm
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I'm not concerned if non polygraphers "BELIEVE" or not, simply detecting the countermeasures are sufficient for disqualification.  Mental countermeasures are more difficult, physical ones are not.  There are methods to overcome mental countermeasures also, just have to be on your toes.
  
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #13 - Apr 28th, 2006 at 5:00pm
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detector1012000 wrote on Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:19pm:
Correct, and we don't need to support our methods of detecting countermeasures, they are abundantly clear to the trained professional.  


If you can really detect countermeasures so well why don't you simply demonstrate it publicly.  No one is asking you to show the methods, a simple "Subject 11, 24 & 56 were using countermeasures" would probably be sufficient.

Applicants then would know that they'll get caught, and refuse to use countermeasures.  You'll benefit both the polygraph community and applicants by settling this debate once and for all.  You must realize that your statements appear to be little more than a bluff to discourage applicants.

As far as I know classified materials are exempt from FOIA request and any polygraph manufacturer or trade school's proprietary information is also.  Thus I doubt any such request would force you to divulge your methodology.  If I am incorrect in this belief please let me know.
« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2006 at 5:17pm by Mr. Mystery »  
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Re: sexual predator...PLEASE READ
Reply #14 - Apr 28th, 2006 at 5:28pm
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detector1012000 wrote on Apr 28th, 2006 at 4:19pm:
Correct, and we don't need to support our methods of detecting countermeasures, they are abundantly clear to the trained professional. 


If it is true that polygraph examiners have no trouble detecting the use of countermeasures why have so many polygraph examiners claimed that it is irresponsible of George to provide countermeasure information on this web site?

I would think that if countermeasure use is readily apparent to “trained professional” polygraph examiners it wouldn’t cause the slightest bit of concern that a website existed where people could learn such apparently useless techniques.

One particular examiner who posts on this site (Nonombre) has stated on more than one occasion that providing information on how to beat the polygraph is as irresponsible as leaving a loaded shotgun on a subway platform or in a schoolhouse.  Although I disagree with his assessment I have to wonder why he would write such things if it is in fact readily and immediately apparent whenever an examinee attempts to use countermeasures.

Logic clearly dictates that if countermeasures were ineffective and/or easily detected then there would be absolutely no cause for concern among polygraph examiners that a website exists where people can learn about countermeasures. 

What possible concern about the availability of countermeasure techniques could polygraph examiners have if countermeasures are in fact easy to detect and/or ineffective?  That a child molester might read about them and use them during a polygraph exam?  If the countermeasures are ineffective and/or easily detected why would it matter?

Is there a concern that a police applicant with a history of disqualifying behavior might use these easily detected countermeasures on a pre-employment exam?  Why would that be a concern if his or her use of countermeasures was ineffective and easy to detect?
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous ętes intellectuellement faillite.
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