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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Employment Forums (Non-polygraph related) › Intelligence Agency Applications, Hiring, and Employment › Re: CIA and Your Job Security There

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Re: CIA and Your Job Security There (Read 31327 times)

NSAreject Senior User Offline Posts: 91 Location: Maryland Joined: Apr 22^nd, 2001 Gender:	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Apr 14^th, 2006 at 9:44pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	They normally give the counter-intelligence (CI) poly every 5 years, but can give the dreaded life-style, at any time. If you fail the polys, you are gone, at the CIA (NSA would transfer you to the motor pool, until you quit). Relatives, with non-US citizenship , for NSA and CIA, are clearance killers. If I were you, I would stay put, and get a DoD TS, for better job security...
	« Last Edit: Apr 15^th, 2006 at 5:58pm by NSAreject »

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EosJupiter Especially Senior User Offline But of Course ... Posts: 483 Location: Always Out There ...... Joined: Feb 28^th, 2005	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #1 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 4:12am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	To all Concerned; Looks like they nailed a CIA employee for talking to reporters. Guess she failed her polygraph ... must not have been to this website, poor SOB, they are going to really do her in. Thumbscrews to go !!! Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12423825/ Text: ---------------------------------------------- NBC: CIA officer fired after admitting leak Officer allegedly failed polygraph, admitted giving reporter information By Robert Windrem and Andrea Mitchell NBC News Updated: 7:41 p.m. ET April 21, 2006 WASHINGTON - In a rare occurrence, the CIA fired an officer who acknowledged giving classified information to a reporter, NBC News learned Friday. The officer flunked a polygraph exam before being fired on Thursday and is now under investigation by the Justice Department, NBC has learned. Intelligence sources tell NBC News the accused officer, Mary McCarthy, worked in the CIA's inspector general's office and had worked for the National Security Council under the Clinton and and George W. Bush administrations. The leak pertained to stories on the CIA’s rumored secret prisons in Eastern Europe, sources told NBC. The information was allegedly provided to Dana Priest of the Washington Post, who wrote about CIA prisons in November and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize on Monday for her reporting. Sources said the CIA believes McCarthy had more than a dozen unauthorized contacts with Priest. Information about subjects other than the prisons may have been leaked as well. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the firing. CIA spokeswoman Jennifer Millerwise confirmed the dismissal. Millerwise said she was unsure whether there had ever been a firing before at the agency for leaking to the media. Citing the Privacy Act, the CIA would not provide any details about the officer’s identity or assignments. All CIA employees are required to sign a secrecy agreement upon being hired stating they are prohibited from discussing classified information with anyone not cleared to receive the material. Before going public with her name, NBC News reached McCarthy's husband, Michael. He said he could not confirm that his wife had been fired from her career post. He declined further comment. Priest said she could not comment on the firing, which she said she learned about from NBC News. The Washington Post report caused an international uproar, and government officials have said it did significant damage to relationships between the U.S. and allied intelligence agencies. CIA Director Porter Goss told the Senate in February that leaks to the media had damaged national security. Subsequently, Goss ordered an internal investigation on leaks involving classified security data. The probe led to the fired CIA officer, sources told NBC. This leak is not linked to the recent scandal in the CIA involving undercover agent Valerie Plame’s identity’s being revealed, NBC reported. Separately, the Justice Department is investigating New York Times stories about the National Security Agency’s domestic warrantless eavesdropping. Times reporters James Risen and Eric Lichtblau won a Pulitzer on Monday for their reporting on the issue. The NSA and other agencies had requested the probe, sources told NBC. ------------------------------------ enjoy !! Regards ....
	« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 4:41am by EosJupiter »
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nonombre Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 334 Joined: Jun 18^th, 2005	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #2 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 5:53pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	EosJupiter wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 4:12am: To all Concerned; Looks like they nailed a CIA employee for talking to reporters. Guess she failed her polygraph ... must not have been to this website, poor SOB, they are going to really do her in. Thumbscrews to go !!! Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12423825/ Eos, Your position regarding this unfortunate incident, though not unexpected, is very troubling to me. IF guilty, then the bottom line truth is that Mary McCarthy was a highly placed CIA official who was entrusted with this nations deepest secrets. What she has apparently done with that solemn covenant was to egregiously place her own interests beyond those of her countrymen and deliberately with forethought, sell out her nation for the price of a newspaper. Regarding what if any involvement the CIA polygraph program had in flushing this apparent spy, we really don't yet know. However, I believe one of the following three situations is what transpired: 1. Polygraph had absolutely no involvement in this case. If that is what comes out in the end, then there is no controversy here. Nothing for Antipolygraph.org to talk about. 2. She was administered a polygraph examination as a suspect in an investigation. She failed the examination and provided some or all of the information that we are all now reading about. If this is the case, then chalk one up for specific issue polygraph testing, because it is clearly a key factor in the resolution of a major counterintelligence investigation. 3. She was administered a routine periodic screening polygraph examination, failed the test, and as a result confessed to deliberately providing highly classified information to a newspaper reporter and therefore knowingly releasing it to our enemies. If this is what actually happened here, then the so-called "antipolygraph movement" has just taken an artillery round square in the chest. Having said all that, what really worries me is not what Ms. McCarthy has or has not done. The government/courts will sort that out. What really troubles me is statements like the one that Eos Jupiter made: "...Looks like they nailed a CIA employee for talking to reporters. Guess she failed her polygraph ... must not have been to this website, poor SOB..." Clearly, Mr. Eos Jupiter, Mr. Maschke, and others on this site would have been much happier if Ms. McCarthy had somehow used the dribble hawked on this site to somehow effect her polygraph examination, and therefore go on giving away classified information to our enemies during a time of war... Eos even calls this spy a "Poor SOB," instead of what she actually is. He seems to feel sorry for her. Never mind the fact that this woman has probably crippled our nation's ability to fight one of the most miserable battles we have ever had to endure. What is more important to Eos and others on this site is not that she is a spy, but that she might be a "victim of polygraph." Very Interesting... Hey guys, here's something to think about: Have you considered the possibility that Ms. McCarthy had in fact visited this site, downloaded TLBTLD, and was caught in a feeble attempt to employ the "countermeasures" you hawk so aggressively? Just something to think about... Regards, Nonombre 8)


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Mr. Mystery Senior User Offline Posts: 99 Joined: Mar 2^nd, 2006	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #3 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 6:43pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 5:53pm: Hey guys, here's something to think about: Have you considered the possibility that Ms. McCarthy had in fact visited this site, downloaded TLBTLD, and was caught in a feeble attempt to employ the "countermeasures" you hawk so aggressively? From time.com: "Through the course of these investigations, a CIA officer acknowledged having unauthorized discussions with reporters " Since the first countermeasure taught is "MAKE NO ADMISSIONS!" and it appears she did confess it is unlikely she visited this site. Also it appears this was a specific issue polygraph not the routine 5 year screening: "Goss spokeswoman Jennifer Millerwise Dyck would not discuss details but said the unauthorized disclosure was discovered in the course of "thorough internal investigations" that examined which CIA officers might have had access to classified information that had appeared in the news media."


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #4 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 6:46pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre, The CIA has been kidnapping, disappearing, torturing, and sometimes killing people in violation of U.S. and international law. The secret prisons about which Dana Priest of the Washington Post reported (at least in part based on information provided by Mary McCarthy) existed for one primary purpose: to skirt U.S. and international law. I agree with Daniel Ellsberg that there are times when unauthorized truth-telling becomes a patriotic duty.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Marty Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 499 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2002	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #5 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 7:05pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 5:53pm: IF guilty, then the bottom line truth is that Mary McCarthy was a highly placed CIA official who was entrusted with this nations deepest secrets. What she has apparently done with that solemn covenant was to egregiously place her own interests beyond those of her countrymen and deliberately with forethought, sell out her nation for the price of a newspaper. Indeed, if true Mary violated the law, plain and simple. Quote: ...She was administered a polygraph examination as a suspect in an investigation. She failed the examination and provided some or all of the information that we are all now reading about. If this is the case, then chalk one up for specific issue polygraph testing, because it is clearly a key factor in the resolution of a major counterintelligence investigation. This is most likely the case. Like the NSA tapping and Plame case, this had also been referred to DoJ according to reports. It was considered a serious and damaging leak. Since the leaks would have involved contact with WaPo's Dana, peripheral (non-public) elements of this crime would be quite specific and possibly even lend themselves to the scientifically valid GKT. In any case the associated interrogation was obviously successful. Marty

	Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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Drew Richardson Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 427 Joined: Sep 7^th, 2001	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #6 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 7:38pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	As has been discussed and suggested, the possibilities are quite varied for the role (ranging from no role to useful tool to cover for other means) of and/or any significance of a polygraph exam(s) in this matter. I will be very interested to see how eagerly and aggressively a criminal indictment and prosecution are pursued. Polygraph's role could affect both and be elucidated by both. If Ms. McCarthy leaked information from a compartmentalized information area, perhaps the best proof of such would be a carefully constructed concealed information test given to Ms. Priest of the Washington Post-an exam focusing on details connected (but different from) those made public by Ms. Priest. Next best would be a concealed information test given to Ms. McCarthy about the details of the logistics of any contact (calls/meetings/etc) with Ms. Priest which could be verified by Ms. Priest (if necessary) through limited immunity offered to Ms. Priest from any prosecution.
	« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 8:11pm by Drew Richardson »

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nonombre Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 334 Joined: Jun 18^th, 2005	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #7 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 8:50pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: nonombre, The CIA has been kidnapping, disappearing, torturing, and sometimes killing people in violation of U.S. and international law. The secret prisons about which Dana Priest of the Washington Post reported (at least in part based on information provided by Mary McCarthy) existed for one primary purpose: to skirt U.S. and international law. I agree with Daniel Ellsberg that there are times when unauthorized truth-telling becomes a patriotic duty. Then why did it take a polygraph examination for this lady to tell the truth? If she was such a "Patriot," then WHY didn't she have the GUTS to go public ??? Remember "Deep Throat?" The "patriot" who outed the Nixon administration? Well it turned out in the end that he did it because he was passed over for a promotion. Another "Patriot" in action? Mr. Maschke, your flavor of "patriots" I can live without. Regards, Nonombre


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Marty Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 499 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2002	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #8 - Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 9:45pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 8:50pm: Then why did it take a polygraph examination for this lady to tell the truth? If she was such a "Patriot," then WHY didn't she have the GUTS to go public ??? Let's hope the "assets" the CIA maintains don't get the "GUTS" to disclose their association. Context is important. A notable example is a Mr. F. Mr. F. confessed to standing by while a man was tortured (for revenge, not information). He was repeatedly beaten then roasted while alive until he finally succumbed from the fire. Mr. F. was armed at the time and could have interceded however he felt disinclined. Mr. F. also noted that he was able to obtain information by lining men from a village against a wall and informing them he would shoot them right there unless they gave him the info he needed. It worked. Mr. F. was the chief U.S. prosecutor at the Nuremberg War Trials and his anecdotes are from WWII. He is now a foremost expert in international law. The man roasted was an S.S. officer, the roasters, former inmates. The stories are from a WaPo interview. www.benferencz.org http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/21/AR2005072101680.... Context is important. Marty
	« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 10:19pm by Marty »
	Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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Tarlain Senior User Offline Posts: 50 Joined: Apr 14^th, 2006	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #9 - Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 12:42am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	God only knows what they did to her in the interrogation to force an admission. I know a lump of metal and wires wouldn't be enough to get me to talk. Regardless of whether she is guilty or not...I hope they didn't force her to stay awake for weeks on end torturing her. If the people that hid the prisons were interrogating her...I don't doubt she has already been punished sufficiently. I don't really have a strong opinion either way since too many facts are missing. But I just can't figure out how a seasoned, life-long intelligence person fails a polygraph test and admits everything.


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Onesimus Very Senior User Offline Posts: 110 Joined: May 10^th, 2003	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #10 - Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 2:17am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Tarlain wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 12:42am: But I just can't figure out how a seasoned, life-long intelligence person fails a polygraph test and admits everything. My sentiments exactly. Perhaps they already had a strong case against her and confronted her with it during the interrogation?
	« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2006 at 5:45am by Onesimus »

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EosJupiter Especially Senior User Offline But of Course ... Posts: 483 Location: Always Out There ...... Joined: Feb 28^th, 2005	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #11 - Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 2:42am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 5:53pm: Eos, Your position regarding this unfortunate incident, though not unexpected, is very troubling to me. IF guilty, then the bottom line truth is that Mary McCarthy was a highly placed CIA official who was entrusted with this nations deepest secrets. What she has apparently done with that solemn covenant was to egregiously place her own interests beyond those of her countrymen and deliberately with forethought, sell out her nation for the price of a newspaper. Regarding what if any involvement the CIA polygraph program had in flushing this apparent spy, we really don't yet know. However, I believe one of the following three situations is what transpired: 1. Polygraph had absolutely no involvement in this case. If that is what comes out in the end, then there is no controversy here. Nothing for Antipolygraph.org to talk about. 2. She was administered a polygraph examination as a suspect in an investigation. She failed the examination and provided some or all of the information that we are all now reading about. If this is the case, then chalk one up for specific issue polygraph testing, because it is clearly a key factor in the resolution of a major counterintelligence investigation. 3. She was administered a routine periodic screening polygraph examination, failed the test, and as a result confessed to deliberately providing highly classified information to a newspaper reporter and therefore knowingly releasing it to our enemies. If this is what actually happened here, then the so-called "antipolygraph movement" has just taken an artillery round square in the chest. Having said all that, what really worries me is not what Ms. McCarthy has or has not done. The government/courts will sort that out. What really troubles me is statements like the one that Eos Jupiter made: "...Looks like they nailed a CIA employee for talking to reporters. Guess she failed her polygraph ... must not have been to this website, poor SOB..." Clearly, Mr. Eos Jupiter, Mr. Maschke, and others on this site would have been much happier if Ms. McCarthy had somehow used the dribble hawked on this site to somehow effect her polygraph examination, and therefore go on giving away classified information to our enemies during a time of war... Eos even calls this spy a "Poor SOB," instead of what she actually is. He seems to feel sorry for her. Never mind the fact that this woman has probably crippled our nation's ability to fight one of the most miserable battles we have ever had to endure. What is more important to Eos and others on this site is not that she is a spy, but that she might be a "victim of polygraph." Very Interesting... Hey guys, here's something to think about: Have you considered the possibility that Ms. McCarthy had in fact visited this site, downloaded TLBTLD, and was caught in a feeble attempt to employ the "countermeasures" you hawk so aggressively? Just something to think about... Regards, Nonombre 8) NoNombre, Whats interesting to point out here is that yes she violated her trust but she did it in my opinion from conscience. Anyone of conscience and humanity would not just sit by and watch flagrant violations of human rights. It is my opinion and I would not have just sit by either. Wrong is wrong, even in war time. As a retired officer I had a strict code about following unlawful orders or actions. And these prisons and the actions being done by these patriotic public servants to other humans is wrong. So do spare me the patriotic rhetoric about supporting these types of activity. For the record I do not support anything where torture. intimidation, or violence is condoned for the greater good. The end never justifies the means. Our government touts its human rights record, but again this administration see no point in following its own policies. If we are not a nation of law, then we are morally and legally bankrupt. Be as disturbed as you want, but if I sit on her jury there is no way I would find her guilty. What she did will remain in my opinion a public service by outing illegal activities by a goverment that more and more heads towards a police state. Regards

	Theory into Reality !!
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Tarlain Senior User Offline Posts: 50 Joined: Apr 14^th, 2006	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #12 - Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 3:16am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	The end always justifies the means to a polygraph person. I have already lost count of how many times Nonombre has talked about the results of polygraph to excuse its hideous shortcomings.


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nonombre Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 334 Joined: Jun 18^th, 2005	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #13 - Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 3:52am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	EosJupiter wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 2:42am: NoNombre, Whats interesting to point out here is that yes she violated her trust but she did it in my opinion from conscience. Anyone of conscience and humanity would not just sit by and watch flagrant violations of human rights. It is my opinion and I would not have just sit by either. Wrong is wrong, even in war time. As a retired officer I had a strict code about following unlawful orders or actions. And these prisons and the actions being done by these patriotic public servants to other humans is wrong. So do spare me the patriotic rhetoric about supporting these types of activity. For the record I do not support anything where torture. intimidation, or violence is condoned for the greater good. The end never justifies the means. Our government touts its human rights record, but again this administration see no point in following its own policies. If we are not a nation of law, then we are morally and legally bankrupt. Be as disturbed as you want, but if I sit on her jury there is no way I would find her guilty. What she did will remain in my opinion a public service by outing illegal activities by a goverment that more and more heads towards a police state. Regards Ah yes, she was so brave that she hid in her office and had to be flushed out with a polygraph. A perfect role model for the rest of us... As always, my regards, Nonombre


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Tarlain Senior User Offline Posts: 50 Joined: Apr 14^th, 2006	Re: CIA and Your Job Security There Reply #14 - Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 4:20am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nonombre wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2006 at 5:53pm: Regarding what if any involvement the CIA polygraph program had in flushing this apparent spy, we really don't yet know. nonombre wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2006 at 3:52am: Ah yes, she was so brave that she hid in her office and had to be flushed out with a polygraph. A perfect role model for the rest of us... As always, my regards, Nonombre You start this thread claiming that you don't know what the polygraph did. Now you are saying the polygraph flushed her out... Make up your mind! Or at least try to stay objective and keep your story the same for more than one day.


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