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Failed poly impact other clearance? (Read 34256 times)

John_Doe_Forever New User Offline Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2^nd, 2006	Failed poly impact other clearance? Apr 3^rd, 2006 at 11:21pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	If one has a DoD clearance with the investigation done by DSS (OPM now), and applies for a job with an intel agency but fails the poly for supposed reasons that would negate the DoD clearance (even if not true, but we know how these polys work), would that in fact dismiss the DoD clearance as well?


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quickfix Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 371 Joined: Jan 15^th, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #1 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 1:59am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Failure of a screening exam in connection with an application with another DOD agency is not grounds for revocation or suspension of a DOD security clearance. What generally happens is, applicant is non-selected for the position sought; your current agency's security of CI office may or may not be informed of your poly results; if so, the security office/CI office may or may not open a CI investigation surrounding your failed poly. Subsequent actions depend upon that outcome and your agency's policy. If your agency has a polygraph program, you may be asked to retake the exam by your own agency. It becomes further complicated if you were given a "full-scope" poly, passed the CI portion, but failed the suitability portion. Some agencies have no suitability poly requirement, only CI portion. Some agencies have no poly requirement for many or most positions. And finally, it is somewhat surprising that you have not been offered a retest, most (not all) DOD components attempt to resolve the exam.


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FBI-Reject User Offline Posts: 30 Joined: Mar 28^th, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #2 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 2:04am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Can someone explain exactly what the suitability portion of exams is? Is it possible to "pass" all the questions but still be considered unsuitable?


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quickfix Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 371 Joined: Jan 15^th, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #3 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 2:08am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Some exams consist of two parts; CI-scope (espionage, sabotage, terrorism, etc); and suitability, which includes involvement with illegal drugs in the past five years, falsifying one's SF 86, and having committed serious crimes. One could pass one portion and fail the other.


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John_Doe_Forever New User Offline Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2^nd, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #4 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 3:10am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	quickfix wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 1:59am: Failure of a screening exam in connection with an application with another DOD agency is not grounds for revocation or suspension of a DOD security clearance. What generally happens is, applicant is non-selected for the position sought; your current agency's security of CI office may or may not be informed of your poly results; if so, the security office/CI office may or may not open a CI investigation surrounding your failed poly. Subsequent actions depend upon that outcome and your agency's policy. If your agency has a polygraph program, you may be asked to retake the exam by your own agency. It becomes further complicated if you were given a "full-scope" poly, passed the CI portion, but failed the suitability portion. Some agencies have no suitability poly requirement, only CI portion. Some agencies have no poly requirement for many or most positions. And finally, it is somewhat surprising that you have not been offered a retest, most (not all) DOD components attempt to resolve the exam. Since I work for a contractor, I have a DoD clearance that did not require a poly and I also had a high level clearance with an intel agency because I provided some support to them. I have not taken the poly before but the intel agency notified me and said they found something in an application that I filled out several years for another agency that conflicts with what I said on their SF86. They asked me to take a poly to confirm that the old paperwork was an error and that I had never done what they said. I told them I would take the poly and they will let me know when. However, I no longer need that clearance because I am no longer providing support to that agency. That being said, if I just get debriefed off the contract and they take away that clearance, I can continue to work for my DoD clients. Will the intel agency cause a problem with DoD and let them know the situation if I do not take the poly and just turn away from the situation (since I will not be supporting in the future anyway)? Can they cause a problem or are the intel and DoD communities to separate entities?


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quickfix Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 371 Joined: Jan 15^th, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #5 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 3:37am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	First, it sounds like a poly is being asked of you to resolve an SF86 conflict, which is part of the suitability sub-test. Second, you're confusing clearance and access. Holding a TS clearance requires no poly (with a couple of exceptions not relevant to contractors). Access to specifically-designated programs, such as NSANet, PKI, etc, does require the poly. If you decline/don't pass the poly, you are denied access, which is separate from your clearance. However, since your poly is now a matter of record, it could affect you sometime in the future, particularly if the terms of your contractor position change, such as requiring access to perform your duties. It might affect your position if the other agency notifies your parent agency, as I outlined in my earlier post.


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John_Doe_Forever New User Offline Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2^nd, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #6 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 3:49am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	quickfix wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 3:37am: First, it sounds like a poly is being asked of you to resolve an SF86 conflict, which is part of the suitability sub-test. Second, you're confusing clearance and access. Holding a TS clearance requires no poly (with a couple of exceptions not relevant to contractors). Access to specifically-designated programs, such as NSANet, PKI, etc, does require the poly. If you decline/don't pass the poly, you are denied access, which is separate from your clearance. However, since your poly is now a matter of record, it could affect you sometime in the future, particularly if the terms of your contractor position change, such as requiring access to perform your duties. It might affect your position if the other agency notifies your parent agency, as I outlined in my earlier post. Thank you for the very informative posts. I have the option to not take the poly but in an effort to show i am not hiding guilt, I told them I would take it. However, since I am not currently supporting that agency, and will not be in the future, and as a matter of fact will be relocating geographically, if I have my security department contact them and tell them I am going to be debriefed from their contract because I am not supporting anymore, and don't need that special access, will they close the issue or will they send it over to my DoD "clearance holders" (for lack of a better term)? I don't want to attract attention but I also don't want to go through the whole poly process since I do not need that special access from that particular agency.


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quickfix Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 371 Joined: Jan 15^th, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #7 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 4:00am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I can only offer you an educated guess that the matter will be closed and the other agency will not notify your security office ("clearance holder"); just one word of caution, all federally conducted poly results can be obtained by any DOD poly program, so you are already in the system as having an unresolved poly on file. When your next clearance update is due, it may come up as an issue.


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John_Doe_Forever New User Offline Posts: 6 Joined: Apr 2^nd, 2006	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #8 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 4:14am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	quickfix wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 4:00am: I can only offer you an educated guess that the matter will be closed and the other agency will not notify your security office ("clearance holder"); just one word of caution, all federally conducted poly results can be obtained by any DOD poly program, so you are already in the system as having an unresolved poly on file. When your next clearance update is due, it may come up as an issue. Thanks for the advice. After I agreed to the poly, the gentleman said he was going to write up the report and kick it up to management so they could make the official decision on whether or not it is needed. I'm hoping that, given the right timing, I can be debriefed before it is logged as me needing a poly. Even so, if i have to take on e in the future, that is fine, I just don't want to deal with it now, given all the nightmare stories out there, if I don't have to. Thanks.


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NSAreject Senior User Offline Posts: 91 Location: Maryland Joined: Apr 22^nd, 2001 Gender:	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #9 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 1:29pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	John_Doe_Forever, It depends on what you admitted to; I do not believe that DoD/DSS look at the actual poly charts, for good reason, but agencies, such as, CIA and NSA may look at each others charts. You will have to disclose the failed poly/denial, on your SF86, so it may impact the clearance process at other Intel agencies. Certainly, this situation can't be helpful. Did you check out this site, before taking your poly; if so, you may have chosen not to take the poly. The CIA would not clear me, until I passed my CI poly at NSA...


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NSAreject Senior User Offline Posts: 91 Location: Maryland Joined: Apr 22^nd, 2001 Gender:	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #10 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 4:07pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	John_Doe_Forever, I have heard that DoD/DSS thinks the poly is nonsense, and if you only refused to take one, then that shouldn't matter - good choice, if you don't need one...


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Wallerstein Senior User Offline Posts: 51 Joined: Oct 6^th, 2005	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #11 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 4:16pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	QUICKFIX: If I may butt in here--you seem to have some solid information regarding the ramifications of an "unsuitable" determination. Perhaps you can indulge me here. I was deemed unsuitable by CIA last year--with the caveat that I could affirm that I was never denied a security clearance and could reapply in a year. I now have an opporunity at State that would require a TS clearance, no poly. Will the State security people have access/attempt to get access to my CIA charts/folder?


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NSAreject Senior User Offline Posts: 91 Location: Maryland Joined: Apr 22^nd, 2001 Gender:	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #12 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 7:45pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Wallerstein, Since you were never denied, I wouldn't think it would be an issue, since the SF86 only asks about denials (I believe). I was put into clearance reinstatement "limbo", by the NSA pricks, but it didn't cause a problem with the CIA, or DoD...


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Wallerstein Senior User Offline Posts: 51 Joined: Oct 6^th, 2005	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #13 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 8:38pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	NSAreject, thanks. The SF-86 asks "have you ever been investigated by the federal government?" I have, but I have not been denied a clearance. I have to put "yes" and for clearance granted put "N/A." This I hope will not raise too many red flags. Plus I have been told that the National Agency Check (or NAC) will register by unsuitable ding at CIA. btw, did you see the Atlantic Monthly's article on NSA? Pretty good.


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NSAreject Senior User Offline Posts: 91 Location: Maryland Joined: Apr 22^nd, 2001 Gender:	Re: Failed poly impact other clearance? Reply #14 - Apr 4^th, 2006 at 8:47pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Wallerstein, All I can say, is be TOTALLY truthful on your SF86, and if you are, then it usually takes something major to cause a problem (the DoD has always been really fair with me, but I have always been totally truthful). No I didn't see the NSA article, but having worked there for many years, a lot of it is pretty mundane...


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