Normal Topic Filling out app... (Read 4467 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box tangowhiskey
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 2
Joined: Mar 26th, 2006
Filling out app...
Mar 28th, 2006 at 6:19pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I've received some info to fill out for the CIA application process.  I'm a little nervous because it asks for drug use during the last 12 months.  Last June I smoked marijuana a few times while traveling abroad.  Haven't touched it since and have never been a habitual user.

Should I disclose this?  If and when I get to the polygraph round I imagine 12 months would have passed since any use.  The CIA website says drugs shouldn't have been used in the past year.  What should I do??
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box retcopper
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 192
Joined: Aug 31st, 2005
Re: Filling out app...
Reply #1 - Mar 28th, 2006 at 7:39pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Tango:

Tell the truth.  This will be  a hot issue for you  and you will be found deceptive if you lie about it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box antrella
User
**
Offline



Posts: 40
Joined: Mar 3rd, 2006
Re: Filling out app...
Reply #2 - Mar 28th, 2006 at 7:40pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
tangowhiskey wrote on Mar 28th, 2006 at 6:19pm:
I've received some info to fill out for the CIA application process.  I'm a little nervous because it asks for drug use during the last 12 months.  Last June I smoked marijuana a few times while traveling abroad.  Haven't touched it since and have never been a habitual user.

Should I disclose this?  If and when I get to the polygraph round I imagine 12 months would have passed since any use.  The CIA website says drugs shouldn't have been used in the past year.  What should I do??


From my limited experience, the CIA is slightly more "understanding" when it comes to such minor drug use than other agencies. That said, you need to make a decision - will you be candid, evasive, or deceptive? 

I would advise being candid - if it was a couple of smokes in June, they may overlook it if you're an appealing enough candidate. There is, however, the risk that someone will see that and just ding your file immediately - sending you back to square one with the other shmoes (i.e., forced to use the dreaded and painfully impersonal CIA job application website, wait months and months, etc etc). 

You could include a brief note on your application file explaining what you said here (non-habitual use, done in a context where it was culturally acceptable/possibly legal, and so on). Also, by the time the poly rolls around, 12 months doubtless will have passed.

There may be one other option, though you may not like it. Find out if you could hold off on sending in the application materials till June. They (probably) made you wait a few months - they may be understanding and wait a few months themselves.

Should you choose to fudge it (thinking maybe "9 months, 12 months, who's counting?"), you wade into treacherous waters. Will they find out, for a fact, that you smoked up in June '05? Unlikely. But if and when the polygraph rolls around, hesitation on your part may spell your doom (notwithstanding proactive measures).

So your options, essentially, are as follows:
  • tell the truth in hopes of understanding
  • try and drag out the application so 12 months pass 
  • lie under the assumption that 12 months will have passed by the time the polygraph begins and/or assuming you won't have trouble with the polygraph.

Others feel free to chime in.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fair Chance
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 551
Joined: Oct 10th, 2002
Re: Filling out app...
Reply #3 - Mar 28th, 2006 at 8:25pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dear tangowhiskey,

I would wait until you meet the guidelines and requirements of the agency in word and spirit.  The truth is far easier to keep track of than lies.  If an applicant feels that a question is against the law (discriminatory in some way), you have the right to challenge the question.

I would not do anything out of "fear" of the polygraph finding out otherwise.  I would do so because it is the truthful and proper thing to do.

The polygraph needs fear or anxiety to cause reactions.  These reactions do not necessary mean anything as far as truth of deception.  Many honest people telling the truth in a courtroom setting show tremendous anxiety.  Just being in court with all of its formalities, court officers, and crowds could make anyone's palm sweat or heart beat faster.  

For your own private peace of mind, delay a few months and then answer the application with the ethics I hope you will take into government service.

Regards.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box retcopper
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 192
Joined: Aug 31st, 2005
Re: Filling out app...
Reply #4 - Mar 28th, 2006 at 8:43pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Fairchance:

What a contradiction. First you advise him to wait untill he meets the "spirit" of the application and then you tell him to answer with "ethics."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wallerstein
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 51
Joined: Oct 6th, 2005
Re: Filling out app...
Reply #5 - Mar 28th, 2006 at 8:49pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Lying and them finding out is an auto DQ.  Candor and honesty are good.  

That said, I know the question usually asks "have you ILLEGALLY used drugs in the past..."  If you were in a locale where it was legal (Amsterdam) then you may be able to answer honestly in the negative.  before taking this road, however, I would investigate this thoroughly. I read a security clearance appeal decision on the net where the judge so ruled...then again that's a DoD appeal which, obviously, was open to appeal.  

Any decision the CIA takes with you, however, will not be open to any appeal.  Dismissals are done there on "suitability" grounds that are not open to appeal. 

« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2006 at 6:13pm by Wallerstein »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box tangowhiskey
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 2
Joined: Mar 26th, 2006
Re: Filling out app...
Reply #6 - Mar 29th, 2006 at 1:15am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I'm thinking about just being honest and admitting to the usage.  If they decide to discard my application, I have no one to blame but myself.  I'm at the point in my life where I can't keep other career plans on hold waiting on a dream.   

Thanks for all your help.  Let me know if you have any other insights.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fair Chance
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 551
Joined: Oct 10th, 2002
Re: Filling out app...
Reply #7 - Mar 29th, 2006 at 2:32am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dear Tangowhiskey,

I hope you understood my answer concerning "spirit" of the application and applying with "ethics".

You are going into government service.  This is not about any single incident but the "spirit" of performing government service while practicing the proper "ethics" of being truthful about any questions and not circumventing the answers by omission or skewing the truth of what happened. 

I try hard not to play word games and if you need further clarification, please post.

Retcopper,  besides any grammatical errors of presentation, could you elaborate on how I was contradictory in my answer.

My stand is simple.  I believe that all applications should be answered truthfully from my first post to this one. I believe that the polygraph has little utility in prescreening government employment applications especially since many agencies do no further investigation to confirm unconfessed suspicions nor do they videotape or audiotape such procedures.

Regards.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Filling out app...

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X