Hello Everybody... How y'all doing?  

An important development following my original post at 

http://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?board=share;action=display;num=1...;

It's been a few days since I posted... but in my good faith effort to faithfully share my experience accurately, the good folks at the FBI called and informed me that I did NOT fail my Polygraph test as I presupposed when I first made my original post... and courteously offered me a 2nd Polygraph test.

The new polygrapher sounded like a super nice guy (actually the first polygrapher equally sounded nice until he snapped at me during the examination)...

We both made references to the information found on polygraphs throughout the internet and I basically "dumped" on him all my bottled up feelings in the last few weeks explaining to him how, after  it took me over 4 years to get off my butt and "Do the Right thing for my country", I received a huge slap in the face and made to feel like a criminal when I was telling the TRUTH... I also continued  by saying something like "no one who is telling the truth should have to be afraid" as Johnn the Great so masterfully put it... and that "the polygraph is nothing short of junk science" (to which he totally disagreed and offered to show me proof to the contrary)...

I explained to him that I am a highly sensitive man and that I am petrified of embarrassing myself again in a 2nd exam (I actually am so embarrassed that I did not tell anyone except one of my very close family members about the first exam)...

The fact remains that, to date, I still cannot figure out why I had such severe emotional and physiological reaction to the control question and have no reason to believe that this time will be any different for me....

I am going to present another “psychological theory”… I am NOT a psychology expert and this is NOT a scientific theory…  It may be TOTALLY wrong!… so, I do NOT want to be judged… made fun of, nor will I tolerate ad hominem attacks…. 

Unless someone has the intellectual competence and the “good heart” to understand carefully the delicate nuance of this theory and my entire post, please remain quiet and go start your own post!… 

When I lived in the in the 3rd world, I, like MANY OTHERS, was always petrified when someone of authority had ANY question even if I or my family did NOTHING wrong and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic of the question… Of course, there were no polygraphs but in regular conversations, if someone of authority asked me if I knew anything about someone who did something bad… and even if I  knew nothing about that person, I immediately “looked” guilty… and I  became a nervous wreck hoping that he will not get me or my family involved just because… This may be very hard to understand for most of you good folks who did not experience the 3rd world… but please.. at least try!... 

The closest thing to an “American” experience is when any of you hears the alarm system go off next door … As a “good Samaritan”, you call 911 and, “without wanting to get involved” you just want to let the cops know that the “alarm next door” went off…  To that , the cop responds “OK, thank you… what’s your name?”… and you say “listen…I do not want to get involved... I just wanted to be helpful”… and then he, having your phone record from 911, would respond “OK… you are so and so...and you live on so and so, right?”… It is HIS right to ask that!... but if you were like me, you would feel very nervous, OFFENDED (do not ask me why nor knock me down), and hope that the cop doesn’t think you have anything to do with the alarm being set off and investigate you… and pray that they do not involve you…. This is ALL irrational… but that’s how I ACTUALLY would feel!... 

Although unrelated, I felt the same way AS SOON as the relevant question was asked!... 

My point is that even if I get a slightest hint of negative energy (and I am VERY smart and sensitive to detect it) for being questioned about something bad, I get IRRATIONALLY petrified… I am my worst enemy in that sense!... It does NOT mean that I am not telling the TRUTH!... 

So for me, if the polygraph examination will be conducted in a manner similar to the first test (I am not sure how it could be different), I see no reason why I should be “calm and collected” when he asks the relevant question

All in all, he was an awesome listener and a ”best friend” material... and he said that "now that you vented... you should really feel better"... and continued by saying that I have a choice to take the Polygraph exam again.... and he really sounded sincerely concerned… He didn’t for a minute make me feel that he had ANY suspicion that I am a criminal…  so I felt very good at the end of the conversation even though my whole body was shaking from the memory of the first experience and the possibility of a repeat experience… 

I asked if I can get back to him and he sincerely obliged… even courteously offering me his own cell phone number to reach him any time...

On the one hand, I am COMFORTED that I will be in good hands with him but, on the other hand, I am petrified that I will go and just embarrass myself a 2nd time…  I know this time I will NOT be “happy go  lucky” as I was the first time on my way to the polygraph test… 

Also, I am not sure how to deal with my bitterness and utter disappointment towards the polygraph!...  I know that he meant well when he said that he will show me proof that the polygraph is not junk science..... I MUST keep an open mind and I definitely WILL…  but I am very highly intelligent… and the simplest proof of all that the polygraph does NOT give the FBI the TRUTH all the time is that I got FALSE positive even though I KNOW beyond ANY doubt that was telling the Truth!.... 

I have read through MANY of the “yo buddy… go get the 2nd test since it is offered”… “no, be careful, don’t go as the FBI is just playing a game so they can look fair”… I do NOT need such unsupported and inflammatory advice... I can read it elsewhere on this good board!... I sincerely need valid “cause-effect”, root cause,  and well thought out, accurate and critical analysis that is conducive to my post and helpful to me in making my critical decision.

Again this is NOT an invitation for the drunk dogs of society to come howling and babbling senselessly... nor is it a license for anyone to knock down the USA and its fine agencies INCLUDING the FBI!...

By the way, I sincerely bow my hat to Johnn and Polyfool who astutely indicated that my test would be INCONCLUSVE…. Love you friends!... 

So, I thank and invite Johnn, EOSJupiter, George, polyfool detector1012000, Sargeant1107, Twoblock and even quickfix (but no unnecessary barbs, please)… and everyone else like them to come forward with accurate, verifiable and well thought out analysis, comments and advice….

Thank you all!...

Hey perplexed. I read your initial post with great interest. 

You already know the story. The polygraph is bunk, junk science. Most people here will tell you that 2nd/3rd polygraphs with the FBI are useless, and no one ever passes them etc etc. Don't worry about that.

You actually don't need to worry about much. You need to be confident and self-assured in your responses. You know you're not a terrorist (quite the contrary - a patriot); nor a drug dealer or user. The bottom line is you can pass a poly two ways: 1) Luck, or 2) Proactively. 

It's up to you to decide. It's possible that now, having taken the polygraph and being familiar w/ the format & questioning, you can waltz back in there and pass it with flying colors. Or, you may want to do something to ENSURE you pass - namely, countermeasures.

Whatever you decide, choose carefully and go with it 100%. It's a shame that a qualified Arabic speaker like you (or George, for that matter), would miss out on an opportunity to serve because a person operating a flawed machine purports to read your mind. But that's the way it is.

Perplexed,

I have watched your thread unfold and I have a great amount of admiration for your ability to analyze and keep a perspective that a lesser intellect would have probably failed on by now. If you go to the 2nd polygraph with the FBI, then go in ready, honest and knowlegeable. Anything less would tarnish the honor and courage you undoubtably have. But remember that even if they (DI) you, you have what it takes in any endeavor that you pursue. And it will be FBI's loss. Myself I wouldn't work for any organization that makes you crawl and prove your honest via interrogation.  Good luck in any decision you make

Regards ... !!!!

EOSJupiter:

Thanks a lot my friend...  I guess I need good luck...    

I knew that the decision will not be easy after having been re-encouraged by my friendly conversation with the good FBI polygrapher... but I did not think it would be THIS hard... especially in light of the "hair raising" thoughts from George... which will take me a long time to digest!....  Lucky for me, I have more "rose-colored glasses" faith in the FBI than he does... and I hope that they will live up to the high regard I place in them... 

Hey buddy... what does "DI you" mean exactly?

antrella,

By posting enough detail that he could be identified, "perplexed" left himself little choice but to adopt the "complete honesty" approach.

But more generally, I think that nowadays, many polygraphers are assuming that by the time an applicant for employment reports for a "re-test," he/she will have researched polygraphy. The returning examinee who denies having done so is likely to be disbelieved. I also suspect that an examinee reporting for a "re-test" is at increased risk of being accused of countermeasure use whether or not he/she actually employs them. Thus, I think the better option in such situations is the "complete honesty" approach.

I say take the test again. If you pass, you get to be in the FBI. That is not a bad thing. Not everything the FBI does is good, but so it goes with every job. If you dont pass, no harm done for most applicants who will return to some private sector job somewhere like I did. Unless you have some other career path that will involve people needing your FBI file, I doubt it will affect anything.

I told dozens of people about my poly result. There is no embarrasment. It is the test that is wrong, not me.

You have placed all of your cards on the table with the FBI, I think you will find them more sympathetic than you might imagine on your re-test.

I think it was a bit different with George. He was in the intelligence business and the FBI result disrupted his career. For folks like me, while I was upset, I never had a career trashed by it, I simply didnt get to start one.

Dear Perplexed,

Get ready for a rude awakening.  The system does not care about false positives.  As far as they are concerned "this is the cost of doing business."

It is a numbers game.  Alot of applicants for a few positions.  Anyone who "fails" is an acceptable casualty in the "war against terror."  Sad but true.

Those people who think that they have "highly needed skills" which will exempt themselves from the polygraph witchhunt will be rudely awakened to the hard facts.

Regards.

quickfix wrote on Mar 17^th, 2006 at 12:15am:

Thank you, my friend… This is where I am leaning to… but I am still dealing with the uneasy reminder that this is really too MUCH heartache for a 2nd class contract employee status with no benefits, etc… 

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Yeah… I think so…   

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I already addressed that in my posts… I really do not have it in me to do CMs… 

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I NEVER had any doubt whatsoever as to the intent of the question… The question itself is just too CREEPY for me!... I do NOT know why!... that’s the BIGGEST problem when  KNOW I am telling the truth and STILL get false positive.  As Bill so eloquently put it “It is the test that is wrong, not me.” 

However, you helpful advice to reword the question to my comfort level is something to consider... as if it were made very short, I MAY have a lesser reaction to it… but again it’s putting unnecessary pressure on me with NO guarantee that I will not get a FALSE positive.


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Thanks again for the advice, my friend... I am not sure if you are at liberty to say... but are you an FBI examiner somewhere in the US?