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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive (Read 31937 times)
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #15 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 3:50am
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Dept of Defense, not FBI.

Good Luck to you.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconcl
Reply #16 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 5:06am
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perplexed,

One need not be from a third world country to understand  your feelings when someone in a position of authority inquires about a threatening topic to which you have absolutely no connection. It's just the way your mind works and I assure you that you are not alone and there is nothing wrong with you. Simply put, you're a thinker--be proud of it. When I was questioned on national security during my first poly, I do remember thinking how horrible it would be to be accused of being disloyal to my country while realizing that these were questions the FBI meant business about. Even though I thought all the questions were important, I knew for a fact that the national security questions were especially significant. I have no reason to be threatend by them--I am an American born citizen loyal to my country, but I was perceptive enough to know they were different from the rest even without knowing anything about the poly.

You find yourself in a very difficult position. Personally, if I was in your shoes, knowing what you know, I would take my INC and run. First, you already know that polygraphs don't work and you don't believe in them. Fear and the belief that polys work are necessary elements in the process. You've educated yourself, so the option of being fooled into passing is out for you. The so-called test will be different for you now.

Secondly, you've already mentioned to your examiner that you've read things on the internet about polys. Though I commend and respect you for having the guts to let the examiner have it on the phone, telling him that you've researched the poly online was a mistake. I fear that even if you pass without countermeasure use, you will be accused of such. Examiners are very paranoid about this site and yours may question that research, even though he may not have acted like it on the phone. Remember, no matter how nice examiners may seem, they can make some pretty harsh judgements, though unwarranted as they may be. You may also have cause for concern because you've posted on this site--FBI examiners read it--hell, that's what brought me here. 

Third, is the fact that your INC is in national security, which automatically raises red flags. It's one thing to be INC on the suitability/drugs portion of the test, but yours is in national security. One would think the examiner will be especially cautious with you because you were not born on American soil. I know, this is not a fair assumption to make on the FBI's part, but the agency won't risk it. Again, I am by no means questioning your loyalty to your country, but that's the way the agency will see it--better to be safe than sorry. I know, very wrong and unfair.   

Finally, the truth is, the FBI is not all that it's cracked up to be. I too, trusted and respected the agency and thought it was "the tops" in LE. I based this assumption on working with employees of the agency who left 3-4 years ago. It seems there's been a lot of employees who have left within the past few years and their replacements, I must say, are not impressive. I personally find the agency to be disorganized and inept--my faith and confidence in it, shattered. I thank my lucky stars that I didn't end up there. The fact that it has so much power and responsibility, quite frankly, scares the living daylights out of me.   

However, to each his own and in the end, you must do what is right for you. You seem like an eloquent, passionate, idealistic individual whose talents would be more appreciated elsewhere. I wish you the best in making your decision and good luck in whatever you decide.   

P.S. I'll tell you the same thing I told a friend who ironically,  just last night asked me what I thought about her applying for a job that requires a polygraph. Knowing what I know now, I couldn't in good conscience recommend a job to her that requires a pre-employment polygraph and therefore, I respectfully, cannot do the same for you.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #17 - Mar 18th, 2006 at 9:20am
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Perplexed, 

My best advice is to retake the examination, explain to the examiner your thoughts on why your prior examination was a bad experience.  Be very honest regarding your experiences growing up and the manner in which you were treated by authority figures.  Examiners are sensitive to these issues and do know how to work with you rather than against you.  You seem to be getting advice to use coutermeasures, I don't believe that would be your best option. 

Even disussing the postings on this board with the examiner and the purpose of venting here and getting advice is being honest and giving 100% of yourself on this, your second examination makes you an honest and respectible individual.

I applaud your statements regarding total honesty and I believe your examiner will do the same, give him a chance to help you pass this examination without problems by being totally honest about your first experience and other life experiences.  FBI examiners are well trained and most are excellent examiners.   

I wish you the very best, and please, it you do take the step, and 2nd polygraph, report back to the board and tell what happened.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconcl
Reply #18 - Mar 18th, 2006 at 7:07pm
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perplexed,

Detector says "you seem to be getting advice to use countermeasures." If he'd read the thread a little closer, he'd see that at least two posters, myself included, recommended against countermeasure use. Not because they don't work, but because you will already be under suspicion before you even walk in the door and they'll be looking for them. It's quite possible you'll be accused of such without even using them. You may have already gotten on the bad side of you examiner for expressing doubt about the poly without even knowing it. 

I do agree with detector that Cm's are not your best option. In my opinion, your best option would be to withdraw your application and walk away with an INC--better than a DI, no doubt.

Although Detector has a great deal of faith in FBI poly examiners, based on my experience, I must respectfully disagree with him as I'm sure many posters on this board  would concur. Again, from my experience, they're not professional, caring and sensitive as detector would have you believe. My best advice would be not to trust them. My examiners didn't care about the truth and being open and honest with them got me an INC/DI on my permanent file. There was no value placed on that aspect, that's for sure.  Don't make the same mistake I did by trusting an FBI poly examiner--you may  get burned in the end. Trust me, you are playing a game that you can't win because the rules aren't fair. Even if you decide to take the test again and you pass, you will be subjected to future polys by the agency. It would be wise to think about whether that's a chance you're willing to take. You know the tests don't work and you would always be at the agency's whim if someone wanted rid of you. Personally, I would never want an agency or person to have that unfair advantage over me--things should be fair and square. I've seen the fear in the eyes of someone who has trouble with polys and is subjected to them as a condition of employment-- very unsettling. Personally, that is not a position I would want to be in. I feel very strongly that polys have no business in the pre-employment arena nor should they be relied upon for national security screening. Both huge mistakes with possibly devastating consequences. Not to mention a total waste of taxpayer money.   

Much to think about. Good luck with your deliberations.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #19 - Mar 20th, 2006 at 4:31pm
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Polyfool:

Now George and his followers are warning against using counter measures because the examiners might see them.  Very good advice and very interesting.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconcl
Reply #20 - Mar 20th, 2006 at 7:10pm
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retcopper - I wouldn't get my pneumograph tubes in a tangle over this highly case-specific advice. perplexed's situation is different from the average, first-time polygraph taker's situation. that said, countermeasures certainly have a time and place.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconcl
Reply #21 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 4:04am
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retcopper wrote on Mar 20th, 2006 at 4:31pm:
Polyfool:

Now George and his followers are warning against using counter measures because the examiners might see them.  Very good advice and very interesting.


retcopper,

If you were a little quicker on the uptake, you'd have fully grasped the reasons why I recommended against countermeasure use for perplexed. Perhaps, I didn't make myself clear. He's already mentioned to the examiner that he's researched polygraphy online, expressed skepticism about it and is INC on national security. It's almost certain he'll be under suspicious before he walks in the door. NOT because examiners can easily recognize cm's--they can't.  If they could, they wouldn't accuse examinees of using them who don't even know what they are. Explain that one wise a$$.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #22 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 3:41pm
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Polyfool:

So what you are saying is he might be under suspicion and he will be watched more closely so now is not the time to use cms becaue he will get caught. Very good. I knew you guys would come around.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #23 - Mar 23rd, 2006 at 8:09pm
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retcopper wrote on Mar 21st, 2006 at 3:41pm:
Polyfool:

So what you are saying is he might be under suspicion and he will be watched more closely so now is not the time to use cms becaue he will get caught. Very good. I knew you guys would come around.


retcopper,

I'm not going to let your antagonistic postings aimed at me get under my skin. It would be easy to jab back with nasty digs, but I'll refrain. I believe in respecting elders even those with misguided views such as your own.

I think I 've made myself clear in terms of the reasons I gave "perplexed" the advice that I did. I won't repeat it again, despite your inability to comprehend. You know good and damn well that examiners can only GUESS that cm's are being used when they're done correctly, which is the reason why they falsely accuse examinees of using them who don't even know what they are. 

A word of advice. You might try and add some substance to the board instead of just trying to put words in the mouths of others.      
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #24 - Mar 23rd, 2006 at 8:51pm
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Like you add substance.  You never gave a poly test in your life and now you are an expert.  BTW  I do very well recognizing counter measures.
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #25 - Mar 24th, 2006 at 12:19am
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Rectalcopper,

You sound like a real kewl dude. Since you're such an expert on lying, why don't you edumacate us all about your experience with the poly?

- For instance, what's the biggest case you ever cracked with the poly?

- How many times have you taken one yourself?

- Would you let your son or daughter take one?

- Do you think examiners are better or worse on the east coast or west coast?

- Why do you spend your retirement fighting these tired old battles? If you had any faith in the poly, wouldn't you be confident enough to let posts by the nonbelievers here go unaddressed by you?
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #26 - Mar 24th, 2006 at 3:46am
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nolehce wrote on Mar 24th, 2006 at 12:19am:
Rectalcopper,

You sound like a real kewl dude. Since you're such an expert on lying, why don't you edumacate us all about your experience with the poly?

- For instance, what's the biggest case you ever cracked with the poly?

- How many times have you taken one yourself?

- Would you let your son or daughter take one?

- Do you think examiners are better or worse on the east coast or west coast?

- Why do you spend your retirement fighting these tired old battles? If you had any faith in the poly, wouldn't you be confident enough to let posts by the nonbelievers here go unaddressed by you?


Wow, can I play?

May answers to your questions:

#1,  18 month old girl, raped and beaten so savagely, her legs were both dislocated at the hip.  She died from internal bleeding.  I took a confession from a neighbor after a failed polygraph examination.  BTW, he said it happened because the girl "came onto him."

#2,  I have taken two polygraph examinations.  One to get on the police department and the other when I was selected to attend polygraph school.

#3,  Absolutely.  You know when you have two small kids and they get into a fight, each blaming the other?  Well, I just threaten them both with having to take daddy's polygraph test and the actual guilty party always fesses up.  Every parent should be issued a polygraph instrument.

#4,  Hmmm, good question.  I really don't know if the examiners are better on one coast or the other.  I do think the women are prettier on the west coast (but don't tell my wife) Grin 

Regards,

Nonombre
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #27 - Mar 24th, 2006 at 4:02am
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Hi,

Nobody asked you, but since you butted in, Nobrain ...

#1 So, you're telling me that with all that evidence from the crime itself, you are that crappy of a cop that you still had to rely on a polygraph to crack a case? You must totally suck. Failed your appeal to the heartstrings.

#2 In your poly, you were in fact telling the truth then when you responded affirmatively that you are a dumbass who would faithfully rely on the polygraph to prosecute people, rather than physical evidence.

#3 And so polygraphy is child's play? You're a sick father figure and I'd never let my kids near you. If you parent by deception and intimidation, you're doing your children a real disservice, you creep.

#4 Ah, this question is the clincher -- and I think it's why Retcopper will not reply, at least honestly if he ever does. He knows what's up. So, retcopper, which coast do you live on? And don't lie now ...
  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconclusive
Reply #28 - Mar 24th, 2006 at 5:32am
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Geez,

Somebody PLEASE tell me what rock this slug crawled out from under... Shocked




  
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Re: Important:  My Polygraph Test was Inconcl
Reply #29 - Mar 24th, 2006 at 9:14am
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Name calling, such as allegedliar's calling nonombre "Nobrain," "a dumbass," and "a creep" is inappropriate and a violation of AntiPolygraph.org's posting policy. Nonombre's  reply to you was also inappropriate, but it did not come without provocation.

All are requested to keep it civil. Strong disagreement and vigorous debate are welcome; personal attacks are not.
  

AntiPolygraph.org Administrator
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