Hi all, I have read the materials here and acclimated myself to the question formats. I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to share his/her Bureau experience w/ me/us. I'm curious as to how many questions are asked, and if theyre asked in a certain order (like relevant/control/control/control/relevant etc. or something). I have absolutely nothing to hide and sometimes wish I wasn't so intellectually curious - ignorance is bliss! 

Still, I'd like to practice "in my mind" to the extent possible - so I am curious: is it better to concentrate thoughts on the relevant questions (get accustomed to hearing them, so as to reduce response when I actually hear them on test day), or is it better to concentrate thoughts on the control questions, so when test day comes I can think disturbing thoughts when I hear them. 

THANKS all.

collider wrote on Mar 4^th, 2006 at 6:51am:


collider,

Reading TLBTLD as I assume you've done will help you understand the drill--you will know exactly what's going on. Before the test, he'll ask you if you've ever been poly'd before and will ask what you know about it. Do not tell him what you really know or you are doomed for sure. Make up  something--the test doesn't cover what you know about polygraphy. He may warn you about countermeasures, though he may not use that word specifically. You will be warned to tell the truth about everything--the FBI doesn't want liars, etc. He'll go over the relevants (have you violated the FBI's drug guidelines, lied on application, has anyone motivated you to seek FBI employment, have you had contact w/ foreign intelligence) and have you answer them on a form and sign/date it. He may pick up the honesty sermon again and ask you control questions. If you divulge, he'll try to limit the time frame of such misdeeds. The number of controls probably varies from person to person, depending on how much you fess up. Some examiners will ask controls, but if they think you're answering honestly or do not appear to be bothered, he may drop them and they won't appear on the test. He'll ask if there's anything bothering you before the test and you'll say I'm sure like most people, that you're a little nervous and he'll say everyone is. 

The examiner will begin the in-test, asking you a mix of irrelevants, controls and relevants for each round of questions, letting you take a break in -between  rounds. You don't want to concentrate on the relevants --don't let them bother you. It's worrying about the controls that is key to passing the test. Just because you have nothing to hide, does not mean the so-called test will prove you truthful. Worry like hell over the controls. If I were in your shoes and knew about this nonsense beforehand, I would have opted out of the poly and withdrew my application. If you're informed about the poly and still want to work there, I would say definitely practice the mental countermeasures--think of something that truly frightens you during the controls.  The fact that you know the truth about polys and the differences in the questions will most assuredly affect your test. You will know the controls are meaningless to the examiner and won't worry about them unless you use cms. If your charts are scored as no deception indicated, you'll be out of there in about an hour and a half, if not, the examiner will begin his interrogation of you and you're looking at about 3 hours... 

No matter what the examiner says DO NOT under any circumstances, admit to using countermeasures or let him trick you into admitting something you didn't do. He may accuse you of using cm's. He should be less suspicious of you since this is your first test, but this site has created some paranoia among polygaphers in the agency, so be on guard. No matter what examiners say, if cms are employed correctly, they don't know for sure if they're being used. Stick to your guns as if your life depended on it.

By the way, ignorance was not bliss for me. I was uninformed and believed the poly was straightforward--tell the truth and pass--definitely not the case. Good luck to you.

George - while I sympathize with your story, and am fully on-board with the mission to remove the polygraph from federal employment screening entirely, the option "refuse to take it" is just untenable for many of us, including myself. I have nothing to hide - this is my dream job. No one ever got anywhere without taking a risk or two. If it goes well, I'm in. If not, I'm out. There are other agencies that don't require polys (military intel, DSS, others). And though an FBI polygraph failure remains on file forever, I don't think that's an adequate deterrent. I like to think if other agencies are interested enough, they'll either readminister their own polygraphs at a later time. But who knows (I'd be interested in hearing whether applicants elsehere - CIA, NSA et al - had any experiences post-FBI polygraph failure).

As someone who understands the test, countermeasures, etc., I'm simply not concerned with a false positive. 

What I am concerned with are the questions I posed, and if anyone has specific answers - why not share them with me and others who could benefit from this information?

1) The phrasing used in the FBI poly - how many questions, and what wording - and 2) whether it's best to practice for the control questions or the relevants. 

A side question: has anyone taken a practice polygraph? Is this even feasible?

Where there's a will, there's a way. I will simply not allow a junk science bunk test to derail my career goal. I know - it has for so many others - but remember: nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Dear collider,

The dodpi-lepet.pdf is about as exact as it gets for FBI procedure and protocol.  It was quite amazing to see this after my polygraphs for it was exactly as stated.  I do not like the "nothing ventured nothing gained mentality."  This is your reputation and once made record by the FBI, it is close to impossible to clean up easily. 

I do not mind a fair bet if the house is playing clean but the cards are heavily stacked against you.  I hope you come back to this website with news of success but it is almost painful to keep reading about all the false positives coming out of this process.

Regards.

collider

Hey Bud, I admire your self confidence and tenacity. Few youngsters of today has it. Unfortunately, it seems that our government and corporations want yes people. Hence the outsourcing. Greed comes in to play here too.

If you are unfortunate enough to become a false positive statistic (as you say "we all lose"), I hope you retain that tenacity and fight them and fight hard. Show them that they are not the only ones who can play hardball.

Good Luck

Wouldn't the butt clench countermeasure be the most effective? Does anyone know if the FBI ever uses the device on the seat which is supposed to be able to detect this?

Two issues before you make your big decision.  First of all these UFO chasing people are here saying the “same old thing” every night for a reason, and it’s not because the polygraph kicked their ass…if you read through the BS it is more likely they are no different than your 13 year old son…they can’t accept accountability for past transgressions and WILL NOT accept your choosing to put them on restriction for Friday night.  It just can’t be…I can do WHATEVER I want and you can’t stop me…then reality hits…sorry Charlie.  My first point, they were all false positive’s because they “say so” nothing more.  Everyone of them line by line “say” they never did anything wrong…had nothing to worry about, ok, wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up quicker.   

2nd point and you brought it up.  You ever practice these techniques?    That’s right bro, your first day of training camp and your super bowl will all be combined and within 15 minutes of the most important time of your life…if this is your dream job.  Not just that, but during the entire test your going to be thinking, am I doing this CM shit right? Was that enough, too much, was that the right question, oh shoot I think he’s looking at me funny, etc., instead of where your mind should be on the questions.  That coupled with you don’t know what the hell your doing, etc., gives the presence of the turd floating in a punch bowl.  And they’ll tell you “they can’t see it” I say how do you know?  Because nobody accepts your challenge?  Hmmmm….ok…I really wonder why that is?  All I can say is this…if this is YOUR life goal and you truly have nothing to hide, walk into that test with confidence (like you already have) and just take the examination without the horseshit.  Because when you get caught acting like a dumb ass, you raise suspicion towards you (could be DQ’d automatically) and if you’re truly a worthy candidate you don’t need any problems that aren’t warranted.  Or you can roll the dice and blow up your super bowl.  But, if that happens…then you can be a new UFO chaser on this site…bitching and whining about the injustices of the man.   

Other than the same old $hit with no scientific basis, pseudoscience BS, is there anything new you have to give to this topic of polygraph?  What is your “basis” for being a false positive?  Because you say?  Why should anyone believe you?  Does anyone care?  There will always be more success stories than unsupported disenfranchisements…hell, just today I cleared two people of wrong doing….that’s about 1/5th of the full time UFO chasers you have on this site (same old people with the same old song and dance)  Big George chanting his rantings with his minions saying yeah yeah yeah…or the minions stating you talk about big George like that..he’s my Saint and Savior…yeah yeah yeah!  Hahahaha.  Why do I come?  Enterfrickentainment…I’m not much for checkers if you know what I mean!  Haha

What?!  ~Spark

spark wrote on Mar 15^th, 2006 at 7:11am:


The notion that a person can be "cleared" based on polygraph results is a dangerous delusion.