Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Can probation officers force a poly (Read 24921 times)
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Can probation officers force a poly
Jul 3rd, 2003 at 12:32am
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I live in Oregon and am on probation.  My probation officer, and counsler just told me that it is now mandatory that I take a full disclosure poly when it wasn't before.  My question is this:  Do I have the right to deny taking a poly?  Also what about pleading the 5th?  They can't force you to testify against yourself.  If you take a poly, basically that is giving them info against you so they can use it.  Thank you for any/and all advise.

Syd
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #1 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 2:45am
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I would imagine it's part of your probation package.  You always have the option of going back to jail and serving out your full sentence.
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #2 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 2:45am
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Just say NO!
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #3 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 2:49am
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And go back to jail!
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #4 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 2:55am
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That could be the end result.....but I'd like to see someone "forced" to take a polygraph test.  It would seem to me that forcing someone to take a polygraph test would be in violation of APA standards....appears to be a dilema for an APA member.
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #5 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 3:25am
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Unless a post-conviction polygraph was agreed upon as a special condition of probation, legally your PO has very little ground to stand upon with regard to his demand you take one (and pass).

Having said that, you should also be aware that Probation Officers have wide, wide latitude and are often given 'the benefit of the doubt' if and when they come before a judge. There is no clearly defined 'bright line' they cannot cross with regard to their probationees, as long as their edicts are not 'malicious and punitive'. For example, your PO could not order you to post a sign in your yard reading, "Convicted wife beater lives here" or something similar.

If successful passing of a polygraph is not a part of your conditions or special conditions of probation, nor a part of successful completion of whatever counseling program you are attending, I think you have every right to refuse such a ludicrous interrogation. You will need a lawyer, one who will sit down with you and your PO to discuss this. I would recommend recording that meeting. Should your PO still insist on a polygraph, the way I see it you have two options:

1. (respectfully) Tell your PO to violate your  probation and take the matter before a judge.

2. Download, read, and understand The Lie Behind The Lie Detector.  
  

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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #6 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 3:38am
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Syd

Have your PO give you the Oregon Administrative Rule covering the poly requirement for sex offenders. I don't think it is required for any other offense. I can't quote it offhand, but it's there. The Oregon legislature, as did Texas, passed that law a number of years back. They can, also, require a UA. Deny either and, as Saidme stated, you will be violated and WILL serve your sentence.

Do not refuse to take it. If you can't afford the cost of a poly, just tell them "I am not refusing to take it, I just can't afford it and take care of my personal requirements. If the state will pay for it let's get it on". I believe it is unconstitutional for the state to require an indigent to pay for one of their probation or parole requirements. Just don't refuse. The Supp. Crt. has already ruled that requireing a poly and registration IS constitutional.

BTW, if you fail either they can violate you and send you back. They probably won't because of their financial crises. It seems that Oregon's largest industry "prisons" is getting smaller because of money woes. My state isn't in that financial condition.
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #7 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 3:40am
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Many yrs. ago I was in your position, same state in fact.  As part of your release into probation it is required that you take a poly. Refusal to do so IS a probation violation. They usually only require them for one certain type of offence.  So my suggestion to you is that you do not fight it, as it will make them very suspicious, and will just land you back in jail.  It has been mandatory for at least 11yrs.  They will do a pre and post interview, so remember the interviewer is not your friend.  Based on his report they can investigate (due to being on probation) any suspicious results.  Good luck.
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #8 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 4:35am
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Syd,
Quote:
(m) If under supervision for, or previously convicted of, a sex offense under ORS 163.305 to 163.467, and if recommended by the supervising officer, successfully complete a sex offender treatment program approved by the supervising officer and submit to polygraph examinations at the direction of the supervising officer.

This is Oregon Revised Statute 137.540(m). It is the only statute in Oregon requiring or allowing polygraphs by probationers, so you must have committed one of the referenced offenses.
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Do I have the right to deny taking a poly? 

Yes, but plan on doing the rest of your time in prison.
Quote:
...giving them info against you so they can use it. 

This would be true only if you have something you're hiding Undecided

Some states have provisions in the law specifying that the results of a PCSOT can't be used for violation purposes, nor can any past crimes that surface be prosecuted. I don't know what position Oregon takes on this. Ask an attorney.
I can't in good faith advocate that you attempt to use CM's to beat the test. If you are a sex offender and there are things you're hiding from your therapist, you need to get them out in the open so you can get some help. While I don't usually make assumptions, your post leads me to believe that you are hiding something. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
  

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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #9 - Jul 3rd, 2003 at 5:12am
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Orolan hit it dead on.  They will do a full disclosure as well as follow up polys. usually once a month for about 6 months. (usually all at your expense) In Oregon any info that is found to be suspicious can and in sum cases will be investigated, and have to be substantiated.  However the results of your poly. still cannot be used against you.
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #10 - Jul 4th, 2003 at 8:03pm
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All...

Are these polygraphs for probation usually CQT's?

  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #11 - Jul 4th, 2003 at 8:05pm
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Suethem,

Yes.
  

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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #12 - Jul 5th, 2003 at 3:48am
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First I want to say thanks to everyone that has replied. 

I better clarify what I am on probation for.  I have never commited or been convicted of a sex offence.  I took a plea to an assault IV charge, which is domestic violence.  My wife and I got into a real bad argument.  A neighbor ended up calling the cops and I went to jail, eventhough neither one of us hit the other one. 

I am currently doing the D.V. classes, and have to call in every day to see if I need to do a U.A. or not.  We still have a court enforced no contact order in place that we can't get dropped.  We both have tried to get it dropped through the court and my PO and they just keep telling us no.  My wife didn't even want it in place from the very begining. 

So to answer the question if I am hiding something or not, yes I am.  My wife and I still live together, eventhough this no contact order has been in effect for over a year now. 

I don't have anymore jail time to do.  I just have to complete the D.V. class, and have two years of probation.  My PO didn't say anything to me at the very begining about a poly, and neither did the counsler at the D.V. class.  From everything that I have heard from the other people in the class, it isn't manditory to take a poly to pass the class.  All of a sudden the two of them started talking, and I am sure that my PO convinced my counsler to do this. 

The thing is that I didn't give them a reason to think that I am hiding anything.  I have taken several UA's and passed all of them, and never admitted to having unauthorized contact with my wife.  I hope that with this info it will help clarify my situation. 

Thanks again to all that have replied.

syd
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #13 - Jul 5th, 2003 at 5:39am
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  That changes everything.  The only offence that can be legally forced is for a S.O.  That being said I would recommend you follow Beech trees advice as posted on July 2.  Unless it was orderd before hand I don't think they can just ad what ever they want without challenge. 
  Good Luck and sorry about the assumption.
  
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Re: Can probation officers force a poly
Reply #14 - Jul 5th, 2003 at 6:30am
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doesn't matter:

Hey not a problem on the assumption.  I wasn't clear on what the details were.  I haven't had a chance to talk to my lawyer yet, but I will be seeing him here in about two weeks.  I just didn't know if what they were trying to do was legal, I know that it doesn't seem right.  But then again not much of what they do is right.  I knew of the manditory poly for S.O., but had never heard of it for other crimes.

syd
  
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Can probation officers force a poly

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