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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) inconclusive result?? (Read 18582 times)
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #15 - Aug 11th, 2006 at 11:07am
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Greetings!   
I am posting tonight in hopes of gaining insight into the world of inconclusives.  I have been on probation for 10 1/2 years now with the last 1 1/2 added on for having 3 consecutive inconclusive tests after having past 18.  A year or so prior to my first inconclusive test I was in an auto accident the result of another driver.  I continued to experience massive neck pain and migraines which I managed with Aleve and Caffiene.  I was tested by a Poly guy who was using a motion detector and he concluded it was inconclusive as I was cheating.  I immeadiately asked him to test me again and he refused.  I reported to my PO and requested another test from another couple who did Polygraph's.  This time I was told it was inconclusive and that I should seek medical attention immediately for heart issue's which turned out to be validated by physician.  I found out a month later that both he and his wife were practicing under the first guy who accused me of cheating and now I was being accused again (funny that the medical interpretation was conveniently dropped from all paperwork) of cheating the poly.  I then was "allowed to take a third test with a Polygrapher out of town who determined I was inconclusive but could not speak to past accusations of cheating , only that there was no evidence of cheating on this one. Probations just days before my release told me I had less than 6 hours to either sign a 5 year extension or they would arrest me, and take me into court requesting I be revoked and sent to prison for as long as possible. 
Does anyone have any thoughts, feedback and recommendations I could take under advisement?
I recently contacted the ACLU and they are asking for a detailed written accoount to determine if they would get involved....any thoughts here?
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #16 - Aug 11th, 2006 at 7:39pm
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Polygraphs are not accurate. 

1. Get a good attorney and file a motion with the court to be released from probation.  This will be your best course or action.
2. Download and read the free book from this site, "The Lie Behind the Lie Detector" and READ it.
3. As a last resort, take another polygraph and use CMs. If it comes to this, try to negotiate with the court to be released upon a "Pass" result.
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #17 - Aug 11th, 2006 at 7:43pm
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don wrote on Dec 15th, 2005 at 6:52am:
I took an annual maint. poly. today.  I pass every time. (no need for cms).   However today my test came up as inconclusive. I told the absolute truth but the test showed no prominate reaction i guess. 


Everytime I read someone stating "(no need for CMs)" I realize that they have no idea how the polygraph works.
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #18 - Aug 11th, 2006 at 8:03pm
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freedom777 wrote on Aug 11th, 2006 at 11:07am:
I immediately asked him to test me again and he refused.  ?


Polygraphers will refuse to retest you unless some factor of the test changes.  They are unwilling to test against themselves, which is exactly what they would do if all circumstances were unchanged.  Running the same test under the same conditions might render different results and that would show the fallacy of the polygraph machine.  True scientists do this on purpose in order to prove and verify the validity of results.  Polygraphers never will.  In fact, I have yet to find a polygraph that actually has a REAL science degree.

Quote:
(funny that the medical interpretation was conveniently dropped from all paperwork)


It is very typical for polygraphers to exclude information from their reports that might call into question the validity of their testing.  I have had them flat-out lie about statements they made to me.  That is why I now secretly record my polygraph sessions and I have caught them in a bald-faced lie.  If I ever have to take it to court, they are screwed.


  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #19 - Aug 11th, 2006 at 9:19pm
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Freedom:

Don't listen to underminingtruth.  Ask him why he takes so many polygraphs. Get an attorney and do what he says.  In my state it is a violation of  the wire tap laws to tape record someone's  voice without their knowledge.
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #20 - Aug 11th, 2006 at 11:30pm
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Uh, yeah... that's what I said to do, "1. Get a good attorney and file a motion with the court to be released from probation.  This will be your best course or action. "

In my state, it is perfectly legal to record a conversation, as long as one of the parties involved is aware.  I know the thought of having somebody record your polygraph sessions scares you... it should!
(And if you're Bush, you can do it regardless of what the law says).


  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #21 - Aug 12th, 2006 at 1:54pm
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retcopper wrote on Aug 11th, 2006 at 9:19pm:
Freedom:

Don't listen to underminingtruth.  Ask him why he takes so many polygraphs. Get an attorney and do what he says.  In my state it is a violation of  the wire tap laws to tape record someone's  voice without their knowledge.


In your state, what is worse - a citizen recording a conversation to protect their rights or a polygrapher lieing under oath to infringe the citizens rights?
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #22 - Aug 13th, 2006 at 7:36pm
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Jeffery wrote on Aug 12th, 2006 at 1:54pm:
In your state, what is worse - a citizen recording a conversation to protect their rights or a polygrapher lieing under oath to infringe the citizens rights?
  I am a polygrapher.  I have never lied under oath.. Undecided

Oh, I get it.  That was one of those "ad hominum" attacks... Shocked
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #23 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 3:00am
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Nonombre,

I guess I must ask you as a polygrapher.  What do you think of this Ed Gelb business.  If true, it sure seems slimy
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #24 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 5:07am
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DippityShurff wrote on Aug 14th, 2006 at 3:00am:
Nonombre,

I guess I must ask you as a polygrapher.  What do you think of this Ed Gelb business.  If true, it sure seems slimy


If Mr. Gelb's Ph.d is not from an accredited university, he should not advertise himself as such.  I hold a M.S. degree from a fully accredited state university and I have several good friends who have worked very hard to earn doctorate degrees from properly accredited schools.  In short, I resent anyone who holds themselves out to be something they are not...

Regards,

Nonombre
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #25 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 7:55am
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nonombre wrote on Aug 13th, 2006 at 7:36pm:
I am a polygrapher.  I have never lied under oath.. Undecided  Oh, I get it.  That was one of those "ad hominum" attacks... Shocked


Ad hominem, retcopper.  I am especially nitpicky on my Latin, and hominum is a genitive plural; it would make the phrase "toward of the men", rather than "toward the man", as ad hominem is.

With that, there was no such attack here.  A rhetorical question was asked, and a good one:

-Is it worse to record a conversation illegally...
-or be victimized by a polygrapher who lies under oath?

Unless the insinuation is obviously directed at you, nonombre, that's a values question.

Now, back on thread, I hope:

If anything, one should score an inconclusive as a pass. As long as this polybox is around, rules of fairness and evidence should still apply.  If there exist a reasonable doubt in court as to guilt, the accused is not guilty; they get the benefit of the doubt.

With an INC, if you can't say the person is being deceptive according to the rules of the APA or whatever (not that one can divine the truth from all this, anyhow), then you have an "NDI".  How else to reason it?  Deception was not indicated (you don't have a "DI" result), as it could not be found.  This fact by definition says that No Deception was Indicated.  Pretty easy, in my book.  Otherwise, you're making the questionee prove his truthfulness, and that is not how things are supposed to work here.  He should walk in under the assumption that he is honest...

But then, polygraphers don't seem to see it that way...
  

Polygraphers escaped from among the evils of Pandora's box, which might have been an old analog polygraph... only God can tell whether you're lying or not, and He's got other things on His plate...
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #26 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 8:51pm
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Cesium:

You metion a poygrapher lying unde oath.  What to hell are you talking about?

Jeffery:

I dont get the conneciton between a polygrapher giving an exam and lying under oath. Please clarify.

Underlyingtruth:

I have stated here a couple of times that I am very much for vdieo/audio taping the enitre polygraph exam.

P.S. Are you sure your State allows the audio taping of another  without that person's  knowledge? I am from Pa. and that is not allowed. Just curious.
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #27 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 8:56pm
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Cesium:

Other than the fact you are comparing the results of a polygrpah exam  to a finding of guilt or innocence in a court room I agree with your basic premise.
  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #28 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 9:36pm
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retcopper wrote on Aug 14th, 2006 at 8:51pm:
Cesium:
Underlyingtruth:

I have stated here a couple of times that I am very much for vdieo/audio taping the enitre polygraph exam.

P.S. Are you sure your State allows the audio taping of another  without that person's  knowledge? I am from Pa. and that is not allowed. Just curious.


I am certain.  I will try to find some sources.

  
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Re: inconclusive result??
Reply #29 - Aug 14th, 2006 at 11:01pm
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retcopper wrote on Aug 14th, 2006 at 8:51pm:
Underlyingtruth:

I have stated here a couple of times that I am very much for vdieo/audio taping the enitre polygraph exam.

P.S. Are you sure your State allows the audio taping of another  without that person's  knowledge? I am from Pa. and that is not allowed. Just curious.


Yes, in my state it is legal.  I also verified this with my attny before I did it.

According to the Penal Code: So long as a wire, oral or electronic communication — including the radio portion of any cordless telephone call — is not recorded for a criminal or tortious purpose, anyone who is a party to the communication, or who has the consent of a party, can lawfully record the communication and disclose its contents.

A compiled list of the states that do and do not allow this can be found at: http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.recordlaw.html

  
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