Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NSA Polygraphers Named (Read 30212 times)
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6006
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
NSA Polygraphers Named
Dec 3rd, 2005 at 8:54pm
Print Post  
An organizational directory of the National Security Agency's Office of Personnel Security posted on-line by independent journalist Wayne Madsen names, among others, the NSA's polygraph staff. Although the directory dates to January 2005, Mr. Madsen reports in December 2005 that according to informed sources, the information in the directory "remains relatively up-to-date":



For ease of reading, the text associated with Section Q21 is reproduced here. CH=Chief, D/Ch=Deputy Chief, TD=Technical Director:

Q21
Investigations and Polygraph


CH: James G. Hopkins
D/Ch, Investigations: Anne C. Herzich
D/Ch, Polygraph: Joseph W. Pugh
TD, Polygraph: Daniel H. Baxter
Spec Assist, Polygraph: Lorry Ginovsky

Background Investigations/RIPs

Q211- Patricia H. Brown
Q213- Kemper W. Moog
Q21A- Elizabeth A. Mangano
Q21B- A. Gregory Bover
Q21C- Robert J. Amrhein
Q21D- Anita Johnson
Q21E (TBD)

Special Investigations

Q212- Thomas B. McClay

Polygraph

Q214- Daniel R. Hiltz
Q215- Jacqueline R. Clark
Q216- Bradley S. Day
Q217- William R. Stevenson
Q218- Christopher E. Powell
Q219- William D. King
Q210- [sic] Andrew Pecoraro
« Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2020 at 4:46pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
nonombre
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 334
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #1 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 10:57pm
Print Post  
Quote:
An organizational directory of the National Security Agency's Office of Personnel Security posted on-line by independent journalist Wayne Madsen names, among others, the NSA's polygraph staff. Although the directory dates to January 2005, Mr. Madsen reports in December 2005 that according to informed sources, the information in the directory "remains relatively up-to-date":



Mr. Maschke,

I'm curious as to Wayne Madsen's and your motivation in identifying NSA security officers by name (polygraph examiners and others).  I don't know about you, but I am uncomfortable revealing what many would consider very sensitive information.

Nonombre Shocked
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gelb disliker
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 92
Location: ou ti nth emiddl eo fnowhere
Joined: Jul 28th, 2004
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 11:43pm
Print Post  
well, you could give them code names like Liar #1, Liar #2, Liar#3 etc.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6006
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #3 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 12:18am
Print Post  
nonombre wrote on Dec 4th, 2005 at 10:57pm:
Mr. Maschke,

I'm curious as to Wayne Madsen's and your motivation in identifying NSA security officers by name (polygraph examiners and others).  I don't know about you, but I am uncomfortable revealing what many would consider very sensitive information.

Nonombre Shocked


Nonombre,

The members of the NSA's polygraph unit routinely make false accusations of deception -- using a technique (R&I) that has been discredited for decades even if polygraph circles -- and face no consequences for so doing. They have been heretofore had the added luxury of operating from behind a veil of anonymity. My purpose here is to name and shame them.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
nonombre
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 334
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #4 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 2:20am
Print Post  
Quote:
Nonombre,

The members of the NSA's polygraph unit routinely make false accusations of deception -- using a technique (R&I) that has been discredited for decades even if polygraph circles -- and face no consequences for so doing. They have been heretofore had the added luxury of operating from behind a veil of anonymity. My purpose here is to name and shame them.


Mr. Maschke,

I do not know if I would buy the arguement that these intelligence personnel wake up each morning contemplating the "false accusations" they plan to make that particular day.  However, I believe the more important question right now is:

Aren't these people intelligence officers of the United States government?  As such, I would suspect they travel and operate if not always covertly, at least "low profile?"

I fear that by this reporter and now you publicly identifying them, you may have in fact endangered these agents ability to operate, their very lives, and perhaps national security as well.

What about the security officers you identified who are not even polygraph examiners?  Are they to suffer by association?

Seems to me to be to steep a price to pay. 

Regards,

Nonombre

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lookingforajob
Ex Member


Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #5 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 3:32am
Print Post  
Oh please. Polygraphers are not covert employees. We could all find out the names of our polygraphers through FOIA anyway. George is just cutting through some red tape. More power to him.

And as for endangering their lives, give me a break. If anyone wanted to target NSA employees, all they'd have to do is sit outside the entrance and wait, like that shooter did with the CIA a while back. Otherwise, their lives aren't any more endangered that the rest of the world's.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nonombre
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 334
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #6 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 3:54am
Print Post  
Quote:
Oh please. Polygraphers are not covert employees. ...their lives aren't any more endangered that the rest of the world's.


I'm sorry, but I disagree.  First of all, I understand that some of the polygraph examiners in the U.S. government are indeed in a covert status.  Secondly, how would you like to be in a group of tourists taken hostage and the hostage takers figure out that you are an NSA employee?

Please understand, these people don't know the difference between CIA and NSA, they don't know and don't care who may or may not be "covert," or exactly what your job may be.  As an employee of any U.S. government intelligence agency, you are an immediate and highly desirable target.  You are an "American spy," pure and simple.

Can you spell dead?

And that is why I am highly troubled by the public posting of these intelligence officer's names.  Just because you can get something through FOIA does not mean you should post it all over the internet.  That is just plain stupid.


Nonombre
     
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mustbaliar
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 53
Joined: Jun 17th, 2005
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #7 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 7:46am
Print Post  
There are no visible markings on this document to identify it as sensitive or classified.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smokey
Ex Member
*



Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #8 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 11:55am
Print Post  
Quote:
I am willing to bet have never done anything to hurt you or risk the lives of you or your family.


That is because George has probably never had to go through any of those individuals for a ploygraph.

Quote:
I don't know about you, but I am uncomfortable revealing what many would consider very sensitive information.


If it was that sensitive it, more than likely, wouldn't be accessible from the public internet. 

     Let me just clear myself by saying that I am not totally against polygraphing for suspected criminals, as the interrigation may get the truth out if he'she is guilty, but pre employment interrogation in LE jobs?  COME ON.  Regular applicants trying to get a job to perform a good deed service to one's community should have to go through that humiliation and disrespect.  NO ONE IS PERFECT!.  I know that this paragraph don't have nothing to do with this topic, but in came to mind and I needed to get that off my chest. 

-Smokey
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
NSAreject
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 91
Location: Maryland
Joined: Apr 22nd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #9 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 1:58pm
Print Post  
The NSA sells hats, sweatshirts, etc., with NSA logos,
to its employees/contractors.  The whole NSA aura is
way overblown, anyway;  I worked there for many
years, and it was pretty humdrum.  If you want
interesting work, at least from an IT perspective, get
a CIA clearance, at some level (not all work is
TS/SCI/Poly; a DoD Secret will transfer over, if
everyone is a U.S. citizen).  The only ones that I would
consider as "agents", are those in CIA/DDO positions.
Cleared NSA personnel just have access to NSAnet,
(unless briefed onto something particularily sensitive)
which doesn't contain anything of real interest...
« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2005 at 7:43pm by NSAreject »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gelb disliker
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 92
Location: ou ti nth emiddl eo fnowhere
Joined: Jul 28th, 2004
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #10 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 5:40pm
Print Post  
Nonombre thinks they are endangered because he puts all these examiners on a high pedestal.  I can understand his feelings of wanting to protect his "own kind", that is birds of a feather flock together.  But, in this case, birds of a feather lie together.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nonombre
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 334
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #11 - Dec 6th, 2005 at 1:36am
Print Post  
mustbaliar wrote on Dec 5th, 2005 at 7:46am:
There are no visible markings on this document to identify it as sensitive or classified.


Mustbaliar,

I am sure you are correct and there are no such markings.  However, that is still no excuse for posting those names on this or any other website.

After all, how about we get our hands on all the unclassified NSA personnel rosters we can find and publish all those thousands of names on the front page of the Kabul Times....??

Sound ridiculous?  That is exactly what that reporter did when he published the names of the NSA Intelligence officers.  Any by the way, I am not "Putting polygraph examiners on a pedestal. "  If you remember, this idiot from the media published the names of a number of non-polygraph intelligence officers as well.  I still cannot believe that George Maschke as a former member of the U.S. intelligence community made a bad situation worse by publishing those names on his website.

Nonombre
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6006
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #12 - Dec 6th, 2005 at 10:21am
Print Post  
Madsen points out that the directory is marked "For Official Use Only." Which means it's unclassified. None of the personnel on the roster are undercover agents.

Indeed, two of the NSA polygraphers named (Lorry Ginovsky and Daniel Baxter) are officers of the Maryland Polygraph Association and have publicly listed not only their names, but also their home and personal e-mail addresses as well as their office phone number: (410) 854-6363.

While I appreciate the security concerns expressed by NoNombre, I believe they are greatly overstated.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2005 at 10:54pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
jtsmit
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #13 - Dec 6th, 2005 at 10:34am
Print Post  
George,

I'm no fan of the polygraph, and eagerly await the day that it is abolished for employee screening purposes.  In that regard, I think that you and this site have done good work.  I have to tell you, though, that I think that your posting the names of NSA personnel on your site can serve no other purpose than to endanger these individuals.  To be honest, I also question your motives for doing this.  Shame on you!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smokey
Ex Member
*



Re: NSA Polygraphers Named
Reply #14 - Dec 6th, 2005 at 10:49am
Print Post  
jtsmit wrote on Dec 6th, 2005 at 10:34am:
George,

 I have to tell you, though, that I think that your posting the names of NSA personnel on your site can serve no other purpose than to endanger these individuals.  To be honest, I also question your motives for doing this.  Shame on you!


Yeah, that was probably pushing the envalope a little bit. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint