ODIN wrote on Dec 8
th, 2005 at 5:47am:
I am sorry but anti polygraph is a liberal point of view. It does fit this conversation. I guess we will need to agree to dissagree there.
I have never heard a conservitive say "lets ban an important investigative tool". Only the most far left wing fringe is trying to pass these laws.
With a more conservitive court, it may be a matter of time before Frye will be nothing more than a foot note in a history book.
The two types of test ormats that I feel should be used in pre employment is the GQT or the DLCT depending on the examinee and how the pre test goes. Most of the time I use a GQT with desguised controls.
I have found this test to be very effective in taking care of General Nervous Tension. There are some examinees that setting controls on have proven difficult at best, in these cases I have used a Directed Lie Format. The examinee is directed and instructed to lie to the question. There is no trickery involved and is a very very fair test.
I do a few pre employments a day for 5 days a week. out of this I get only about 2 DI's a week. I sometimes get 3 if someone is caught useing countermesures. In most of these cases they read the Doug Whiliams book. I have a stack of these books at my office that examinees have brought to me after their detection and failure.
I don't say this to brag, but to warn others. A fool and his money are soon parted. That book is useless.
I am sorry if anyone is offended by the fool comment but if the shoe fits.
Anyway
Sounds like you had an examiner that didn't spend at least an hour going over your application with you. I am willing to bet he was dominering, rude and made you feel very uneasy. All this acomplishes is a highly upset examinee that not only can't stand their examiner, it also wants to make the examinee want to get the heck out of there. If that ius the case, that was not a fair test. Bet the guy used an R&I and scored it Globaly as well.
I do agree that EVERY test should be recored from the pre test to the end. Examiners should use a standard format in criminal cases. I like the ZONE, MGQT, or in some cases the GQT where it is needed. The SPOT should also be utilized when needed. Everything (I feel) should be scores useing spot analysis and Rank order scoring and only then check the computer to confirm the hand scored charts.
Saddly some examiners are lazy and depend on the computer, way to much.
I feel no one should ever submit to to a Law Enforcement polygraph. It pains me to say that. I have said this before on this board though, and belive me there has been alot of heat about me saying it from my end of the fence. I must speak the truth, you expect that from me and that is what I will give you.
If you take a law enforcement polygraph, you are 9 times out of 10 already accused of something. They have a vested intrest about how that polygraph comes out. I am ashamed to say in MOST cases, NOT ALL, when someone is accused of a crime that person is guilty until proven otherwise.
In a day and time where Law Enforcement hides exculpatory (spelling?) evidance just to get that conviction or keep themselves from looking like they made a mistake.
There has been cases when officers have planted evidence to make arrests in a few bigg cities.
If you get a lawyer like the ones I have worked with that have gotten great results with my polygraphs, Get that lawyer to find out who the examiners that the DA likes are (private examiners). Do this pre Grand Jury. Take a private exam, the examiner (if he is worth his or her weight in salt) will spend about an houre to an hour and a half prepairing you for the exam.
If you pass, ask the examiner what you can expect in the law enforcement exam that you now know you can pass as long as you don't let the law enforcement examiner "get you wound up". If you fail you can explore why you failed.
Maybe the controls werent set well.
maybe the format was not right for you, the examiner didn't pay atention to your responces in the pre test
Maybe there is an outside issue that is simmilar to the crime in your past that you need to get off your cheast.
Maybe the examinee is lyeing and tried to "beat the box" and faild in his efforts. ( I run into these types once and a while )
Either one, it doesn't matter anymore. It was a private test and as such is the tree that falls in the woods that no one is there to hear.
If you pass you scream it from the highest building in town.
As for jobs, there are agencies that don't polygraph. Get a job with them. If you are going Fed then suck it up and know the R&I, and let everything out you can. Leave nothing to chance. If there is something in that persons background, maybe that person is someone I don't want as a Agent/Officer entrusted with my life.
Sorry that is how I feel my living set aside.
Convicted child molesters have no rights! They should consider themselves lucky to be attached to any insturment to keep their freedome secure. They gave up that freedome when they ruined the lives of their victims. Let them live with the chance that every six months may be their last on the outside for the last time. The same way the victims have to live with their pain that has scared their minds way into adulthood.
If you ask me the sex offender still gets off light. I gust don't think it is fair for one adult to condem a child to a lifetime of pain and emotional problems. I have no sympathy for the child molester that polygraphs as a condition of probation. Useing the "fair theam" in that case is a lost fight with me. I feel a polygraph for people that hurt the defenseless would be the least of that persons worries if I had my way.
I always hate to hear about guys like you getting shafted by a bad test. I hope you found something else great. You sound like quite the gentleman, and I am glad there are guys like you in hear that are willing to listen to a opposing veiw point.
I hope I didn't leave anything out.
God bless my new friend.
ODIN,
I think you just about covered everything. I appreciate your kind words in regards to my situation. I do believe in listening to counter points of view--you never know when someone may pose an arguement that you've never considered before, perhaps, swaying a view. Some views will never be swayed, but that's just the way things are, I suppose.
I didn't leave my job after my failed polygraph, which in hindsight, has turned out to be for the better. If I had left my job at that time, I would have no doubt, regretted it. To answer your questions. My polygraph examiner, (who was not friendly from the beginning, but atleast civil in the beginning) used the control question format and spent about 40 minutes on my pre-test. I gotta say, he was pretty damn convincing during the pre-test. He had me hook, line and sinker. So much so, that I told the truth in response to every question asked, even though it didn't make me appear very flattering. I only had to purge on two controls--all the others--I guess, about 5 or 6, I could answer truthfully without purging. I had already made up my mind to tell the truth before I went in, but when he threatened the hell out of me I gave up all information without hesitation. I wanted to do well, so I followed instructions. I completely cleared my conscience and sat down to take the test worry-free. For this, I found myself the focus of an intense hour and a half long interrogation. My examiner was a complete jerk, but looking back, I think the truth is, he just couldn't figure me out to save his life--he got pretty worked up--earned his money that day, if you can call it that. Anyway, I was found INC and DI. No job for me, despite the fact that I was a top applicant, received a conditional job offer and would have brought a skill to the table that's very hard to come by. I had passed all other phases of the employment process, but ONE POLYGRAPH EXAMINER (plus a rubber stamp from Headquarters) had the final say. Like I said, in my case, it turned out for the better--I don't think that job was a very good fit for me. I am lucky enough to get to do the one thing that I always wanted to do. However, what about others who wait their whole lives to achieve their dreams and get so close, only to succumb to a false positive on a pre-employment polygraph? One person should NEVER, EVER have that much unchecked power--that's so wrong. Surely, you must concede this?
From one "gentleman" to another, it seems you are going out of your way to push a few buttons. Does that really seem fair? I mean, think about it. How would you feel, to tell the truth and be falsely branded a liar? You would be incensed just as many on this board are and they are within their full rights. How could we prove that we are telling the truth? What kind of proof are you looking for exactly? Background checks are not conducted until the applicant passes the poly. Allow me to pose a question. How would you feel as an examiner, if background checks were conducted before the poly and your results compared to the outcomes of the previously conducted investigations? Would you be confident enough in the test and your abilities? Do you think such a process would make examiners a little more careful when arriving at their opinions?
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