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Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challenged (Read 9388 times)

George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challenged Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 8:09am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Pittsburgh Post Gazette reporter Richard Lord reports on a lawsuit against the Pittsburgh, PA Fire Bureau over its pre-employment polygraph screening practices: Quote: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/05265/575809.stm Fire Bureau's use of lie detector tests is illegal, lawyer says Thursday, September 22, 2005 By Rich Lord, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette An attorney representing 44 would-be firefighters said yesterday that the city of Pittsburgh denied them chances at employment as a result of lie detector test results. Josh Bloom said it's illegal under state law to require prospective employees to take polygraph tests. He said he has begun filing challenges for the applicants with the city's civil service commission. "We're also looking into the possibility of filing a state and/or federal civil rights action," Bloom said. Bloom said applicants who passed the Fire Bureau's written test and physical examination this summer were given polygraph tests. He said they were asked "whether they had ever done anything in violation of the law in their entire life -- lots of private, personal questions." Bloom said the 44 were told verbally or in writing that they were disqualified because of things they said during the lie detector test, or because they failed it. He said the applicants would not speak for the record. "Lie detector tests are extremely mentally invasive and the courts have unanimously found them to be unreliable," Bloom said. "The day that everyone is required to take a lie detector test to obtain employment is the day we live in a fascist society." City officials could not be reached for comment. The Fire Bureau is starting to train 64 recruits this month. (Rich Lord can be reached at rlord@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1542.)
	« Last Edit: Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 8:56am by George W. Maschke »
	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #1 - Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 8:25am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Here is another report on this story. The web page linked below also includes the video associated with this report. Quote: http://kdka.com/local/local_story_264212528.html Firefighters Accuse City Of Administering Polygraph Tests Sep 21, 2005 9:24 pm US/Eastern Potential firefighter recruits are accusing the city of breaking the law by giving them lie detector tests to get into the new firefighter training class. Pittsburgh has a firefighter shortage and they've been seeking qualified recruits. “I have courage. I can run into a burning building,” said one of the candidates. “It's something I want to do for my city.” Although the recruit scored high enough on the entrance exam, he was subsequently rejected after taking a polygraph test, reports KDKA’s Andy Sheehan. “I'm appalled by it,” the recruit said. “It's not right. If we can fight for our nation why can't we fight for the city of Pittsburgh?” The fire union's attorney said that the city broke the law by giving the tests. “If the city is going to require everyone seeking employment to take a lie detector test that would cause us to live in a fascist society,” Fire Union attorney Josh Bloom said. The union cites a state statute which states that using a polygraph to screen applicants is a misdemeanor offense and can only be used on police candidates or those who handle narcotics. Bloom said it can't be used to determine such things as whether a firefighter candidate uses or ever used drugs. “I don't believe the city of Pittsburgh should be engaging in illegal means to determine whether someone has done something wrong,” Bloom said. Chief Michael Huss confirms that the city law department is reviewing the matter. “We've looked at a couple different solutions and reviewed a couple of different scenarios,” Huss said. “At this point in time it's under review and it's an interpretation issue.”
	« Last Edit: Sep 22^nd, 2005 at 8:57am by George W. Maschke »
	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #2 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 10:45am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05266/576420.stm Fire chief takes blame for polygraph testing of applicants Friday, September 23, 2005 By Jonathan D. Silver, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Pittsburgh Fire Chief Michael Huss yesterday took responsibility for approving controversial polygraph tests for firefighter applicants that probed drug use, drunken-driving arrests and other illegal activity, but he said their use was suggested by the city's Office of Municipal Investigations. "I was aware of it, I supported it, and I'm the fire chief. The buck stops here, I guess," Huss said yesterday. "Personnel was involved, law was involved, OMI was involved, fire was involved. We were all involved. It was the city." A lawyer for the firefighters union claims that the city illegally administered polygraph tests to firefighter applicants and rejected dozens because of their answers. The city said 120 polygraph tests were scheduled, 46 candidates were disqualified and another 44 applicants were offered spots in the fire academy Huss estimated that about 24 people were disqualified because of their polygraph results. "I can't tell you that every single person that was disqualified was because of a lie detector test," attorney Joshua Bloom said. But of those who were rejected, "a large number were based on information elicited during the lie detector test." Bloom said his firm is representing "many" of the rejected candidates. An undetermined number of them have filed appeals with the city's Civil Service Commission either on their own or through Bloom's firm, Koerner, Colarusso and Bloom. State law makes it a misdemeanor to require a lie detector test as a condition for employment unless the prospective hires are "in the field of public law enforcement" or "dispense or have access to narcotics or dangerous drugs." Firefighters do not have access to narcotics, Huss said. Asked if the city reviewed the law before the tests were administered, Huss said, "supposedly." Late yesterday, Huss signaled that the Law Department had found a way to defend use of the polygraph tests on firefighter applications. "We're exploring other avenues. We're not so sure that it can't be applied to our people," Huss said, declining to elaborate. "An argument can be made that we can use the polygraph, is what I'm learning." Huss said he met months ago in his office with representatives from three city departments -- law, personnel and OMI, which investigates citizen complaints and allegations of criminal misconduct against city employees -- to discuss using polygraph tests on firefighter applicants for the first time. At the time Huss met with the other officials, the city was under a $95,000 contract with Facticon Inc., a Chadds Ford, Delaware County-based company that performs investigation and surveillance services. The contract, which runs from January 2002 to December 2005, is for "pre-employment background investigation for Public Safety employees." So far, $51,170 has been spent. Louis Wilson, 34, a Hill District native, said he was one of the applicants who took the firefighter test and was rejected. He said he was disqualified for residency reasons, but provided insight into the polygraph test. Wilson said he was interviewed at OMI's Strip District offices on Penn Avenue. He said he was told there for the first time that he would have to take a lie detector test. Wilson said he was asked to fill out a form that covered questions such as whether he had used drugs, sold drugs, cheated on taxes or lived in the city. Then, he said, the polygraph examiner asked several times whether he had lied on the application or to authorities. "I really don't understand why [the Fire Bureau is] doing this to be honest with you. I suppose they're trying to find perfect applicants, which I don't think exists. But they haven't given me a specific reason why they're doing this for firefighters," Bloom said. Huss said the tests were used as a "tool to find out more about our candidates" and to make the background investigations more effective. Bloom said some candidates received documents indicating they had failed their polygraph tests. Upon further inquiry, they were read transcripts of their question-and-answer sessions, he said. Bloom said he was told by clients that such detailed information would not be provided to the city. Bloom said he is considering filing a civil rights action. Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen A. Zappala Jr. is aware of the issue and plans to speak with the city today to familiarize himself with its practices. (Jonathan D. Silver can be reached at jsilver@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1962.)

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #3 - Sep 27^th, 2005 at 10:49am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/news/s_378162.html City wants court ruling on lie detector tests By Jeremy Boren TRIBUNE-REVIEW Tuesday, September 27, 2005 City officials want the Allegheny County Court of Common Pleas to validate a hiring practice that asks fire department applicants to take lie detector tests before they're hired. City Solicitor Jacqueline R. Morrow said her office filed a request asking the court to decide whether the city "acted properly" in using the 12-question polygraph tests last month. "We're saying to the court, 'Please tell use if we were correct,' " Morrow said. "I think there was a credible, thoughtful basis for what we did, and we're hopeful that the court will agree with us." Pennsylvania criminal law bars employers from using lie detector tests on job applicants, except law-enforcement officers and people who would have access to drugs on the job. Pittsburgh is arguing that firefighters fall into both exceptions because they have the power to investigate and enforce arson laws and they have "extraordinary access to the property of others," which could include drugs found inside a house during an emergency, according to the court filing. The court filing said the polygraph test results weren't used in the application process. A lawyer representing several disqualified firefighter applicants joined the city in filing a motion for a quick ruling. Joshua Bloom, of the Downtown firm Koerner, Colarusso and Bloom, said he represents "many" of the 44 applicants who took polygraph tests in August and were disqualified. Bloom wants a court ruling this week, before a new class of 60 firefighters starts academy training Wednesday. The city has 603 firefighters, but its budget could accommodate 720. "We both have an interest in getting this done quickly," Bloom said yesterday. Bloom believes a court ruling against the city could reinstate the applicants he represents. City lawyers hope to have an opinion by the time the Pittsburgh Civil Service Commission reviews several appeals. The deadline for filing appeals is Oct. 1. Jeremy Boren can be reached at jboren@tribweb.com or (412) 320-7987.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #4 - Sep 28^th, 2005 at 9:28pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05271/578980.stm Dropped fire recruits admitted temporarily Judge slates hearing tomorrow on city use of polygraph testing Wednesday, September 28, 2005 By Jim McKinnon, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Recruits for the Pittsburgh Fire Bureau, eliminated from employment consideration after taking polygraph tests, will be allowed to join the training class while awaiting a hearing to determine whether the city broke the law by administering the lie-detector tests. An attorney representing 44 prospective firefighters has said the city denied them employment as a result of lie-detector test results. Common Pleas Judge R. Stanton Wettick Jr. met yesterday with an attorney representing the 44 recruits and an assistant city solicitor before he scheduled a hearing at 11 a.m. tomorrow. The recruits, through attorney Joshua M. Bloom, filed a complaint Friday after they were disqualified for employment as firefighters. Bloom said applicants who passed the Fire Bureau's written test and physical examination this summer later were disqualified because of things they said during the lie-detector test, or because they failed it. Wettick, according to Bloom, will decide by Monday whether the city violated any laws by ordering the polygraph tests. State law makes it a misdemeanor to require a lie-detector test as a condition for employment unless the prospective hires are "in the field of public law enforcement" or "dispense or have access to narcotics or dangerous drugs." In preparation for the suit, city Solicitor Jacqueline Morrow sought Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen A. Zappala Jr.'s opinion. In a letter yesterday, Zappala asked the city to cease using the polygraphs as a condition of employment. The city had justified the use, arguing that any firefighter could later be assigned to an arson investigations unit As a criminal investigator, a firefighter's polygraph results might then have been applicable. "As you are aware," Zappala wrote to Morrow, "if the city wants to put some special condition on arson investigators, it is possible to bargain the issue with the union." Joe King, president of Fire Fighters Local 1, declined comment yesterday. Zappala said no criminal charges were likely if the city is found in violation of a criminal statute for having ordered the polygraphs. If the recruits' lawsuit is successful, Bloom said, the complaining recruits will be reinstated by Fire Chief Michael Huss. Firefighter training classes begin today. (Jim McKinnon can be reached at jmckinnon@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1939.)

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #5 - Sep 30^th, 2005 at 7:25am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05273/580286.stm Judge continues hearing on city use of polygraphs Friday, September 30, 2005 By Jim McKinnon, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Common Pleas Judge R. Stanton Wettick Jr. wanted to know yesterday who gave the city authority to administer polygraph tests to prospective firefighters. When city Assistant Solicitor Hugh McGough could not adequately answer, Wettick continued until today a hearing to determine whether use of lie detector tests was proper procedure during examinations of applicants for city firefighter positions. As many as 44 applicants were disqualified, and more than 20 of them claim they were rejected because of the polygraph tests, said Joshua M. Bloom, the attorney representing many of those not included in a recruiting class that began training this week. City Solicitor Jacqueline Morrow last week asked the courts to clarify whether the city had authority to administer the polygraphs for Fire Bureau recruits. Fire Chief Michael Huss, testifying at yesterday's hearing, said he was advised to use the lie detector tests after meetings with representatives from the Office of Municipal Investigations, Civil Service Commission and city Law Department. Huss said his firefighters sometimes come across illegal drugs and other dangerous narcotics. In other instances, firefighters are required to preserve crime scenes at fires or traffic accidents, or to enforce evacuation of buildings, much like police. On cross examination by Bloom, Huss said that he knows of no incidents where firefighters removed illegal drugs from a fire scene that became a crime scene. Bloom argued that the state Civil Service Act does not authorize the use of polygraph tests in the hiring process. To do so, the act would have to be changed, he said. McGough insisted that the city's Civil Service Commission approved the tests, but, he said, "there is no writing [of such an order] that I know of." The judge asked McGough to show him, by today, that such authority exists. Wettick has said he will rule by Monday. (Jim McKinnon can be reached at jmckinnon@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1939.)

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #6 - Sep 30^th, 2005 at 7:41am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/pittsburgh/s_379381.html Fire officials' authority tested By David Conti TRIBUNE-REVIEW Friday, September 30, 2005 City attorneys first must prove to an Allegheny County judge that the Pittsburgh Fire Bureau had written authority to administer lie detector tests to job applicants before he can determine if the tests are legal. "If you're saying it's an inherent power, if that's the case, you're out of luck," Common Pleas Judge R. Stanton Wettick told Assistant City Solicitor Hugh McGough after a 2 1/2-hour hearing on Thursday. The city asked Wettick to validate the polygraph tests after several applicants who were turned down for jobs as firefighters complained. Attorney Joshua Bloom, who represents more than a dozen applicants, argued the tests violated state criminal law and civil service codes. The city for the first time required applicants to take the polygraphs, in which they answered at least 12 questions on topics ranging from drug use to cheating on income tax returns, and lying and stealing. About 20 applicants were disqualified and not allowed to begin training classes this week because of their answers during the test. McGough, who authorized the personnel department and Fire Chief Michael Huss to administer the tests in August, argued that firefighters fit into an exemption in the state law because they "work in the law enforcement field" and have access to narcotics or other "dangerous drugs." Huss, Assistant Chief Francis Deleonibus and city Emergency Medical Services Chief Robert McCaughan testified that firefighters come into contact with drugs at fire scenes and while assisting paramedics during medical calls. Huss -- who testified that he has not and will not take a polygraph test -- also said firefighters enforce the fire code, although only four bureau employees are authorized to actually cite someone for a violation. And firefighters can order an evacuation of a building. During questioning from Bloom, the officials said firefighters assist police in law enforcement -- and paramedics with medical calls -- but firefighters don't perform those jobs. Wettick gave McGough another day to file a written argument on what authority the city had to order the polygraph tests. The judge said he expects to rule on the city's request by early next week. If Wettick rules against the city, applicants who were disqualified solely because of the polygraphs could be reinstated in the training class. David Conti can be reached at dconti@tribweb.com or (412) 391-0927.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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mustbaliar Senior User Offline Posts: 53 Joined: Jun 17^th, 2005	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #7 - Sep 30^th, 2005 at 4:20pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	They are more caught up in the weeds regarding the wording of polygraph use than the fact that pre-employment polygraph doesn't actually work. It's unfortunate, but at least the polygraph in this case might be stopped. How many of this bureau's current firefighters (no doubt having saved countless lives and homes and businesses) might have never been hired if the polygraph was used in their time? Let's hope they put a stop to this ridiculous process.


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Sergeant1107 God Member Offline Posts: 730 Location: Connecticut, USA Joined: May 21^st, 2005 Gender:	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #8 - Sep 30^th, 2005 at 4:48pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I wonder what would happen if all of the current firefighters were polygraphed along with the applicants? And no one told the polygraph examiners which ones were applicants and which ones were decorated twenty-year veterans? When the current chief failed his polygraph (which according to the accuracy of the polygraph for pre-employment screening he’d be 50% likely to do) would that change his opinion? I think it would be illuminating if every police chief in Connecticut (which has a mandatory polygraph policy for all police applicants) were forced to undergo a polygraph, but the examiner was simply told they were a run-of-the-mill applicant. After fifty percent of the current chiefs failed and were told they showed “responses” to questions about dealing drugs and driving drunk I bet we’d see a change in the law.

	Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6220 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #9 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 7:59am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	In a feat of extreme reaching, a judge has ruled that firefighters are not covered by Pennsylvania's antipolygraph law because they might encounter prescription medications in the course of their work. By this judge's expansive reasoning, public hospitals and clinics might a fortiori be entitled to require doctors and nurses to submit to lie detector "testing" as a condition of employment. Quote: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05277/582198.stm City can use polygraphs on fire recruits, judge rules Tuesday, October 04, 2005 By Rich Lord, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette The city of Pittsburgh has the right to subject firefighter candidates to lie detector tests, Common Pleas Judge R. Stanton Wettick Jr. ruled yesterday. The ruling means that 26 candidates rejected because of polygraph testing results will not join a training class that started Wednesday, said city Fire Chief Michael H. Huss. "This is going to set a precedent that we're going to use [polygraphs]" in future hiring decisions, he said. Attorney Joshua M. Bloom, who represents most of the rejected candidates, said he is considering appealing the matter to the Commonwealth Court. "Living in a free society, we should not have to undergo lie detector tests to gain employment," he said. Under state law, only candidates for jobs that are "in the field of law enforcement" or involve "access to narcotics or dangerous drugs" can be required to take polygraph tests. In August, the city required that firefighter candidates answer 12 questions while connected to a polygraph. The questions included whether the candidate had lied about drug-related activity, cheated on income taxes, committed "a serious undetected crime," lied to "a person of authority" or falsified his resume. The city said no candidates were rejected because they were believed to be lying. Rather, they were passed over because of their answers. Mr. Bloom helped more than 20 rejected candidates file challenges with the Pittsburgh Civil Service Commission, and said he was considering filing a federal civil rights lawsuit. The city asked Allegheny County Common Pleas Court whether its use of polygraphs was legal. The city argued that firefighters enforce fire codes and sometimes come across drugs when they enter private property. Judge Wettick ruled that most firefighters are not law enforcement personnel. But he found that they are often the first responders to medical emergencies. "Frequently, the firefighters must examine the [patient's] vials and pillboxes containing [their] medication to prepare the list of medications" for paramedics, he wrote. Firefighters may have to move medication from a table or medicine cabinet to "a location near the patient" while awaiting paramedics, he wrote. Judge Wettick wrote that the city charter already gives the chief authority to develop background checking procedures. Mr. Bloom said civil service appeals would continue. Chief Huss said the city was prepared to add the 26 rejected candidates to its class of 59 recruits had the judge so ordered. He said rejected candidates would not automatically be excluded from future consideration. (Rich Lord can be reached at rlord@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1542.)

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Brandon Hall Ex Member	Re: Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challen Reply #10 - Oct 4^th, 2005 at 9:09am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George, Travesty of Justice. Let's not forget the "gophers" that transport the drugs from pharmacy to nurses' station. While they are at it, perhaps postal service employees should be required to test, as they certainly handle mail-order prescriptions. How about coroners? In rural areas, many times the person who is the subject of a coroner's investigation is initially transported along with prescrips by funeral home personnel. Might as well add paramedics. They have ready access to medications. Come to think of it, why not polygraph everyone, because everyone at one time or another comes into contact with prescription drugs. What a stupid decision on this judge's part. He should be removed from the bench, but not before going through a polygraph himself.


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Pittsburgh Fire Bureau's Polygraph Use Challenged

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