Normal Topic LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules (Read 8561 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Aug 29th, 2005 at 11:31am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The Los Angeles Times reports today on possible hiring policy changes within the LAPD, which is having a hard time meeting its recruitment goals. Of course, one good way to hire more qualified applicants would be to abolish polygraph screening, which is eliminating some 50% of applicants who make it that far along in the hiring process, and which results in many applicants being falsely branded as liars and wrongly disqualified.

Quote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lapd29aug29,1,1817676.story

LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Chief Bratton proposes ending zero tolerance of past drug use and bad credit. Some fear that lower standards would bring problem officers.
By Wendy Lee
Times Staff Writer

August 29, 2005

Struggling to lure more officers, the Los Angeles Police Department is joining a growing number of law enforcement agencies across the nation in considering less stringent recruitment rules.

Police Chief William J. Bratton said he was drawing up the proposed changes, which would end the LAPD's zero-tolerance rule toward past marijuana use and make it easier for the department to hire people with bad credit histories.

Bratton's idea has ignited a debate within the department, with some fearing that lower standards would bring problem officers to the force and create the potential for more misconduct and corruption. Others question whether people who admit to breaking the law in the past can be trusted not to commit crimes in the future.

But outside law enforcement experts said it would not be a radical departure from what many other agencies already are doing. Some said the rules would end up making the LAPD look more like the population it serves.

"It's definitely not your father's Los Angeles of 1955," said Eugene O'Donnell, professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. "It's one of those ironies that LAPD, in a city that's pretty hip and sophisticated, is still somewhat trapped in a time capsule."

O'Donnell said that a police department should have police officers with "real-life experience," which can involve marijuana use and even some minor criminal problems, so that the department can better deal with "real-world problems."

Bratton said some of the LAPD's standards regarding drug use and a candidate's financial history may be "artificially high." He is considering reducing the department's zero-tolerance drug requirement so it is in line with federal law enforcement standards. The FBI requires its candidates to have no more than 15 uses of marijuana and not within the three years before the application date. The FBI also requires that other drugs, including steroids, not be used more than five times and not within 10 years of the application date.

"The reality is, kids today … may in fact have sampled drugs some time in their life," Bratton said this month. "Does that mean we should automatically disqualify them? I don't believe so."

The move comes as the department is pushing to meet its goal of a 10,000-officer force by next summer. To enter the LAPD, candidates must undergo a series of tests and evaluations, including a background check, a psychological evaluation, a physical abilities test and a polygraph. Only one in 12 candidates makes it through the process, said Scott DeYoung, the department's chief personnel analyst.

Bratton has long pushed to expand the LAPD, pointing out that the police force is far smaller per capita than those in other major cities, including New York, Chicago and Philadelphia. Until now, city officials have been unable to fund Bratton's goal of boosting the force to at least 12,000 officers.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa has said hiring new officers is a top priority. So if more money is found for additional hiring, Bratton's proposed recruitment rules — if approved by the City Council and the Police Commission — could bring new officers on more quickly.

But some are skeptical.

"Anything that would reduce standards, we would have a serious concern about," said Los Angeles police union President Bob Baker. "We certainly don't want to reduce the qualifications it takes to become a police officer."

Michael Lyman, a criminal justice professor at Columbia College in Missouri, said he was dubious about recruits who have broken the law by possessing marijuana, a misdemeanor.

"I think what this is doing is inviting trouble, because you are bringing a known rotten apple into the barrel," he said. "If he/she has been willing to break the law prior to becoming a police officer, what's to say if they are going to be any different behind the badge?"

Relaxing recruitment policies — though in a much more extreme way than Bratton is proposing — has brought problems to some police departments. In 1993, there were 79 arrests of officers in Washington, D.C. Police attributed the problems with the classes hired in 1989 and 1990, when investigators, in an effort to quickly build up the force, did not spend as much time doing background checks and interviewing candidates' former employers.

Last year, the D.C. police force significantly toughened its recruitment rules, requiring candidates to have some college credits. The change came after studies suggested that officers who attended college may have better comprehension skills in court, write better reports and are apt to resolve situations with less use of force, said Capt. Kevin Anderson, director of recruiting for the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington.

"It does make recruiting harder," Anderson said, adding that it has cut the number of applicants in half. "In the long run, it's supposed to make for a better officer and a better department."

Still, Bratton's proposal is generally in line with what other departments are trying.

In recent years, the Chicago and New York police departments have dropped their minimum age for applicants to 21 from, respectively, 23 and 22.

Several metropolitan police departments such as New York, New Orleans, Detroit, Miami-Dade and Boston have less stringent policies on drug use.

In Boston, candidates are not automatically disqualified if they admit to using drugs in the past. Candidates are disqualified, however, if they are convicted of a felony. In Detroit, a candidate who hasn't smoked marijuana in the last five years may still be considered for a job.

Miami-Dade's police force also allows past marijuana use but requires that applicants have not used the drug within the last two years. But for many police departments, any past use of felony drugs, such as cocaine or opium, disqualifies the candidate.

Sgt. Ronnie Cato, president of the Oscar Joel Bryant Foundation, an organization of black LAPD officers, said Bratton's announcement will open the doors to minority recruits who often fail the department's background check because of bad credit history arising from divorce or low-paying jobs.

Cato said some minority officers rejected from the LAPD get hired at other local law enforcement agencies such as the school and airport police.

In addition, Cato said, there are a lot of young people who have experimented with marijuana in college.

"If your president can smoke a joint, if your Congress people can smoke a joint, you mean to tell me a police officer can't smoke the joint when they were in college?"

Times staff writer Richard Winton contributed to this report.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dippityshurff
Ex Member


Re: LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Reply #1 - Aug 29th, 2005 at 5:23pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George,

I think this dovetails nicely with what we have been doing for a few years now.  While we don't want someone with rotten credit joining us, we do understand that somebody can have problems.  That's why a poor credit history is not a per se disqualifier.  Marijuana usage is not a per se disqualifier.  While we don't have a numerical scoring system, any combination of judgement problems would add up to being disqualified.  I can remember several years ago when the National Organization for Black Law Enforcement (NOBLE) put forth the idea that applying these "stringent" credit and drug usage standards made it impermissibly restrictive for minorities.  Hmmm.

What we try to do is locate the best possible recruit, who will work for what it pays.  While we don't want or expect to recruit Angels, we think that middle 50's boy scout attitude ain't all bad either.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box dimas
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 278
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Reply #2 - Aug 30th, 2005 at 5:56am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I have worked with many officers who led less than "model" lives as teenagers that grew up and became excellent officers and parents.  It shocks me that many of them would not qualify to even try out in the process for many agencies.   

It is a HUGE double standard that our President, the Governor of California and MANY politicians used a plethora of drugs in their past (as adults) and they qualify for the job they do, however, someone who used drugs as a teen does not qualify for many departments to grow up and be a cop.

While I agree completely with what the LAPD is doing, I really do not see them eliminating the Polygraph ever (unless something better comes along).   

Personally, I see the advantage of it eliciting admissions of past drug use, wrongdoing etc.... as something that departments will hold on to.

  

"But I, being poor, have only my dreams. I have spread my dreams under your feet; tread softly, because you tread on my dreams."&&
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dippityshurff
Ex Member


Re: LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Reply #3 - Aug 30th, 2005 at 9:15pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
we don't use the polygraph for pre-employment screening. never have. never will. And, we believe we get a more thoroughly vetted recruit as a result.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box dimas
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 278
Joined: Jul 3rd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Reply #4 - Aug 31st, 2005 at 1:31am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
DippityShurff wrote on Aug 30th, 2005 at 9:15pm:
we don't use the polygraph for pre-employment screening. never have. never will. And, we believe we get a more thoroughly vetted recruit as a result.



A  few years ago I may have completely agreed with you on the anti-polygraph stance, especially considering that I was the victim of the pre-hire poly (inconclusive).  I can go on and on how other departments (that didn't poly) labeled me defective or infected by the plague based on the "inconclusive" results I had gotten from those other two agencies I had been poly'd by.   I often wonder if my very first inconclusive had any bearing on my second inconclusive with a different agency, but I digress and get back to the point.

Having worked my way up in the Department I used to work for I got very sick and tired of running into corrupt officers, gang members "infiltrating" the force, and more recently the girlfriends, brothers and even wifes of gangmembers making it through the background investigation.   There are just some things that a BI will not uncover no matter how thorough it is.   

The department instituted the polygraph as "tool" to weed these undesirables out, funny but under that machine it is amazing how easy some people break as opposed to during a regular BI or OB interview.  It is just as simple as that.  Unfortunately, it is not perfect and many (myself included) are often the victims of it.  I was fortunate in that I had enough "say" in the department that when it was instituted it was not used as a sole disqualifier and ultimately the decision was left up to a board of officers who weighed in all the factors ranging from the field background investigation, test, psychological and oral board interview.

The polygraph is not perfect, but the day that you worked shift after shift after shift with a group of guys only to later find out they were gang members and were actively involved in the gang life prior to employment, were on the take and were for a lack of better words PIECES OF SHIT whom you had trusted to watch your back, then you will understand my change in attitude.


  

"But I, being poor, have only my dreams. I have spread my dreams under your feet; tread softly, because you tread on my dreams."&&
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Sergeant1107
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 730
Location: Connecticut, USA
Joined: May 21st, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Reply #5 - Aug 31st, 2005 at 4:29am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dimas,

I don’t think I would have a problem if the polygraph was used solely in interrogations, or even during questioning in a background investigation.  As a method of intimidation to elicit confessions it can be quite effective, provided the subject truly believes it is capable of detecting lies.

If it were solely used in that capacity I don’t think many people on this board would object.  I don’t see what the harm would be in using it like that.  To me, it wouldn’t be much different than any other bluff that routinely occurs in the interview room.   

I often tell suspects that they were caught on surveillance camera, or that a witness took some pictures on their camera phone, or that we found their fingerprints.  If the subject is a fan of the “CSI” television shows I can sometimes tell them that we found DNA at the crime scene and they’ll believe me.  If any of that could cause them to confess then I don’t see the harm in trying it.

Where the polygraph diverges from the above-listed harmless bluffs is that, absent a confession, the operator is still going to render a very subjective opinion on whether the subject was being truthful or deceptive.  Since the polygraph is no more capable of detecting deception than a story about a camera phone or a blank videotape which I claim has footage of the crime on it, that opinion is not going to be accurate.  Yet it could be used to disqualify an otherwise outstanding applicant.

I think it would be reasonable to complete the background investigation and then have an interview with a detective.  Use the polygraph in the interview if you wish.  If any of the bluffs (including the polygraph) used during the interview elicit a damaging confession from the applicant, then by all means disqualify him.  If there is no confession then mark down that the applicant has passed the background investigation and move on to the next phase.

If I lived in an area where everyone grew up believing in the power of crystal balls to detect lies, I would likely have the same lack of objection to using a crystal ball in exactly the same manner.  If it elicits a confession, great.  If it doesn’t then move along.  But please don’t try to pretend it or its operator is able to detect deception.
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box WalkerTR
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 13
Joined: Dec 22nd, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules
Reply #6 - Sep 10th, 2005 at 9:14am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
While this may not have been implemented yet, the testing process is changing. I am in contact with LAPD recruiters and they have told me that LAPD testing will change on OCT 1. The written will now include 3 essays instead of 1, and the oral interview will be dropped for a 90 minute written essay to questions that are similar to those asked in the oral. Don't know if this is easier or harder.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LAPD May Relax Its Hiring Rules

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X