Brandon & Polyfool,

This is a long post, so you may want to get a cup of coffee first.  I apologize, up front, but when I get on a roll, I just have to let it all out……

Yep, I’m certainly late to the table, no denying that at all.  As I write this, there are 19,140 posts and counting.  Darkcobra has 165 posts.  Unfortunately, my work schedule and family life have precluded me from reading the vast majority of them, but I’m catching up as quickly as I can.

Brandon, you say: 
Quote:


I would agree, Darkcobra seems to me to be very open-minded individual.  I think it is wonderful that he has the courage to state in no uncertain terms that polygraph is not an absolute.  But, what I’m not seeing is folks on the other side of the debate concede that there is any possibility that there may be some validity to polygraph.   They keep using the terms “Quackery” and “Junk Science.”  Again, that kind of inflammatory language doesn’t move the debate forward, it only alienates possible allies.

Brandon, I agree entirely with the remainder of your post.  Thank you for being one of the civil folks.

Polyfool, you say: 
Quote:


I would agree that “some” have engaged him in civil discussion, but here are some excerpts of posts that gave me the negative impressions I have so far:

Administrator 4-18-05: Quote:


George: 4-19-05: Quote:


Anxietyguy 4-24-05: Quote:


Bill Crider 5-7-05: Quote:


Anxietyguy 5-10-05: Quote:


Anxietyguy 5-10-05: Quote:


Anxietyguy 5-11-05: Quote:


Bill Crider 5-25-05: _{This one is my favorite, very creative} Quote:


Polyfool 5-26-05: Quote:


Now, I will admit that the ferociousness of the comments has gotten better, but I think you have a long way to go overall.  I’m sure many of you have gained some respect for the “Shady Snake,” I know I have.  I have respect for many of the non-examiners as well.  I hope I have shown that respect on all occasions when posting here.   

Polyfool, you say: 

Quote:


I thought the answer would be obvious based on my very first posting to the site.  My father is an examiner.  He has been in the industry as an independent examiner for many years.  His life’s work is of interest to me.  He believes polygraph to be a useful tool and can, in the hands of the right person, be used to accurately detect deception. I, of course, believe him.  Why should he lie to me about it?  He’s never lied to me before.  Besides, the man is a human lie detector himself. Long before going to polygraph school he could sniff out a lie like a hound dog on the trail of a fox.   

So then, I find this site and decide to see what the opponents have to say.  The more I read, the more I was intrigued.  Yes, the snide comments by both polygraph proponents and opponents tick me off.  But, the underlying debate has merit on both sides.  After reading George’s story, I decided I needed to pay careful attention to his postings.  I read TLBTLD.  Then I re-read it.   

I then asked myself, can I help?  Is it possible to bring the two sides together to further the debate and gain true understanding?  I can tell you, the resistance I’ve met so far makes me think it is possible, but very unlikely.  But, being the eternal optimist that I am, I decided to wade into the debate and try it anyway.   

So, here I am.  I’m your average citizen who is now tuned into the debate.  I’d like to help.  I don’t have any scientific or psychological background, but I can sure tell you what the average person will or won’t buy into.  I think you guys need an outside perspective.  Granted, I am biased towards the use of polygraph, but I have a lot of strong views about the use of it being very limited and much regulated.  But, because polygraph isn’t my lively hood, the abolishment won’t affect me.  It won’t really even affect my father as he is slowly scaling back the number of tests he runs and will eventually retire altogether.  Also, I haven’t had the misfortune to be the subject of a botched exam.  I know that makes you feel very strongly about the issue, but perhaps it also taints your view a bit too.

For those of you who are still skeptical about my intentions, or that maybe I’m one of those dubious polygraph examiners who are just posing as someone else.  Feel free to ask the Administrator of the site whether the IP address I’m posing from doesn’t match my story.  I happen to know the IP address should actually tell him which Insurance company I work for.   

Speaking of Insurance… George, you said: 

Quote:


Thank God! Something I can speak with authority on.  Professional Liability insurance policies (also called E&O policies) vary from company to company.  Each company also decides their underwriting requirements for their policies. There is no true “standard” in the industry as professional Liability policies are very unique and pose the greatest risk in most instances.  The policy language may not require that a waiver be signed by a subject; the policies are usually worded very broadly.  But, the underwriter of the policy can always require proof of certain documents used in the course of conducting certain types of business.   

As Darkcobra states, these waivers are as worthless as the paper they are written on.  Similar waivers and release documents are signed in the course of settling claims, but they are just as worthless.  I’ve seen them defeated in court many times.  Yet, the insurance companies still use them.  It amounts to a handshake agreement and makes the person who received the settlement a little less likely to reopen the claim.  The only waiver or release forms that do withstand the scrutiny of the courts are the ones where the lawyer of the person who signs the form also signs off on the form.  This indicates that the person’s lawyer was there to fully explain the language to his client before the client signed the form.  I doubt many people who take a polygraph bring their lawyer with them to co-sign any documents. Maybe they should?

Next time you rent a car, take a look at the waivers and releases in that agreement. Yikes!

Anyhow, the weekend is finally here.  I hope everyone has a great weekend.   

Mercible   

Mercible

Funny thing is you do know alot about insurance ...
 
hmmm one does wonder ...

IP addresses and subnet masks don't lie either

darkcobra2005 wrote on Nov 7^th, 2005 at 10:29pm:


You weren't honest. And now that your secret is out, I see you are deleting all your posts, to destroy the evidence, as it were. I suppose you do have a sense of shame.

George,

I’ve responded to you privately, but you admonished me to respond publicly as well.  So, here it is….

Darkcobra2005 IS my Father. Now doesn’t that sound like something off of Star Wars?  “Luke, I AM Your Father…” 

All kidding aside, there was no game playing or collusion here.  Dad (darkcobra) wanted me to see the website and see the postings he had done.  Without his knowledge or consent, I joined the site and started posting myself.  I’m sure he was surprised when I did.  And, you are right, there is no “shame” in it for me.  I’m very proud of my father and the person he is.  Yes, he started out on this site under “false” pretense as you call it, but I think he was just bored and wanted to be a pain in the A**, which he is good at sometimes.  (Sorry Dad, remember I have to be honest here)   

Since he started posting as Darkcobra, it appears he is genuinely engaged in the debate and is seeking to truly help people who have been falsely accused of being deceptive.  I’m sure Brandon Hall and others can attest to that.   

So, why did I not immediately make my family connection known?  Simple enough, I wanted my thoughts, comments, arguments to stand or fall on their own.  Also, didn’t want to be found “guilty” by association as Polyfool has already done now:

Quote:

That really hurt my feelings... 

Quote:

True in some respects, but my wife swears I was adopted.

Polyfool, for someone who hated being called a liar, you sure are quick to point the finger without any proof.   Are you just trying to get under my skin or do you really believe I lied to you or anyone else on this message board? If so answer the following:   

Where have I lied on this site? _{(better be able to back is up with more than just speculation)}

What game(s) have I played? 

Everything I have written was exactly how I feel and what I believe.  All the info I have given about myself it true and correct.  Had I been interested in deceit, I would have never said the things I did about myself or my father which led George to be able to connect the dots.  I figured someone would eventually make the connection and I was pretty sure I’d get some derogatory reactions such as Polyfool’s.  But Polyfool’s post only confirms the points I made earlier about there being a propensity for people who are not 100% anti-poly to get attacks leveled at them on this site.  Had anyone of you suspected my relation to Darkcobra and asked me directly, I would have replied honestly as I did with George when he e-mailed me privately.  I’ve got nothing to hide, so ask away!   

George, Polyfool, and everyone else…. I whole-heartedly apologize that my relation to Darkcobra was withheld.    I don’t see why it really matters, but apparently it does to you and I have to respect your feelings in the matter.  If this causes you to doubt my motivations for my posts then please re-read my last post answering the direct question from Polyfool: 

Quote:


If you want me in the debate, I’ll gladly continue to post.  If you don’t, just say so and I’ll just as gladly leave you alone.  As you can see above, I’ve already changed my personal text under my Icon to state the following “Darkcobra IS My Father.”  Hopefully that will avoid any confusion for new folks who visit the site. 

So, where do we go from here?  Don’t know, but it should be interesting either way!

Sincerely,
Mercible (a.k.a. Darkcobra Jr.)

Well that's too bad in my opinion.  I thought Darkcobra2005 added to the conversations and in many instances contributed useful information.  Although I didn't agree with him on many points, it was nice to have the point of view of a polygrapher.  One that was not "militant" in his defense of polygraphy.

I must mention that I did not see an out and out family issue brought up or an attack, only the possibility of a familial relation between Darkcobra2005 and Mercible.  The mention was that there stood a possibility of a parent/child relationship which was not being disclosed.  The problem many of the posters have on this site with limited disclosure is our previous experiences with polygraphers in which we were advised to hold nothing back, to provide full disclosure.  It would be along the same lines as having one of my family members log on to agree with me on my points and give credibility to my statements.  That would seemingly be faux agreement.  According to what you have written, Mercible, that was not exactly the case.

Mercible, I am sure now that you know of my story with polygraphy.  Does that help you understand the viewpoints of the many anti-polygraph posters on this site (those who have been refused further application processing due to a false-positive result)?

I may be in the minority but personally, I would like to see Darkcobra2005 continue to contribute.  However, ultimately that decision is not mine.

Mercible wrote on Nov 8^th, 2005 at 12:29am:



Cobra Jr.,

Both you and your father misrepresented yourselves on this site and hid your relationship while you backed him up, making him out to be the poor victim being attacked by other posters--LIES, LIES, LIES.  The definition of a  misrepresentation is the sense of presenting information in a way that does not accord with the TRUTH.

As for the games, allow me to refer to the "Baad feeling in my stomach" thread where you quoted dear old dad about how he's so concerned about false positives and you go on to coyly ask him what he does to help prevent false positives, does he report them--blah, blah blah.

DarkCobra Sr.,

It was difficult to get past your initial FALSE postings, but  I  gave you the benefit of the doubt as many other fair minded posters on this site and engaged in some discussion. After I said, all polygraphers are not the same and even defended you, I now find myself eating those words. You should be ashamed of yourself--pretending to be concerned about false positive victims. Why should anyone believe anything you say? You're probably just here to gather ammo to better catch examinees in your trap. I hope you've had a really good time playing with people, but the posters on this site are real victims who have suffered at the hands of an invalid testing procedure and/or unethical examiners. There's nothing funny or entertaining about that. I'm glad you won't be posting anymore disingenuous entries here. What a total waste of everyone's time. And don't think we didn't all notice how often you declined to respond to  counterpoints and questions about polygraphy. I for one, regret wasting my time on you. Why don't you crawl back underneath the rock from which you slithered?

As for you Cobra Junior, 
I have zero interest in conversing with someone reared by a snake. You know what they say, "Like father, like son..."

My Haiku ...

Apply named Ode of the Cobra :

Never trust a snake
The look is sincere but fake
The mongoose will win 

Couldn't resist the opportunity !! hehehe 

It seems that deception detection is better with thorough analysis, non-arguable evidence, and of course the human brain.  Again I see no polygraph in sight and the SR & JR Cobra got bagged. Oh thats right I found them deceptive earlier the same way.  hehehe

I love little gifts from heaven ...