Brandon & Polyfool,
This is a long post, so you may want to get a cup of coffee first. I apologize, up front, but when I get on a roll, I just have to let it all out……
Yep, I’m certainly late to the table, no denying that at all. As I write this, there are 19,140 posts and counting. Darkcobra has 165 posts. Unfortunately, my work schedule and family life have precluded me from reading the vast majority of them, but I’m catching up as quickly as I can.
Brandon, you say:
Quote:Darkcobra is quite different from many of the other examiner's I have communicated with in that there is the absence belief in the polygraph as an absolute. This is not an admission that many a polygrapher would offer as most seem to be under the impression that this would destroy credibility on their part.
I would agree, Darkcobra seems to me to be very open-minded individual. I think it is wonderful that he has the courage to state in no uncertain terms that polygraph is not an absolute. But, what I’m not seeing is folks on the other side of the debate concede that there is any possibility that there may be some validity to polygraph. They keep using the terms
“Quackery” and
“Junk Science.” Again, that kind of inflammatory language doesn’t move the debate forward, it only alienates possible allies.
Brandon, I agree entirely with the remainder of your post. Thank you for being one of the civil folks.
Polyfool, you say:
Quote:You're a little late on the scene. Perhaps, you should do a search of Cobra's posts. He has been enaged in civil poly discussion with many users of this board for several months. He has said that he's concerned about preventing false positives and that the poly should not be used as the sole determining factor in employment. Hopefully, he and his examinees have benefited from information gleaned during these exchanges and I think his presence here has been beneficial to those shafted by unethical examiners by allowing them to see that not all examiners are the same.
I would agree that “some” have engaged him in civil discussion, but here are some excerpts of posts that gave me the negative impressions I have so far:
Administrator 4-18-05:
Quote:How appropriate that this polygrapher has chosen a venomous snake for his/her new user name.
George: 4-19-05:
Quote:Drew is not out of touch. Rather, you are a shameless liar too clever by half.
Anxietyguy 4-24-05:
Quote:Your profession is full of jesters and hypocrites.
Bill Crider 5-7-05:
Quote:i tried honesty 4 times and failed all 4, so F*#k you.
Anxietyguy 5-10-05:
Quote:For your sake I hope so, because after all what is a polygrapher qualified to do? Maybe you will be taking my order at the drive through. Try looking in the mirror the next day when the polygraph is exposed,wish I could be there to see the look on your face.
Anxietyguy 5-10-05:
Quote:Won't be long till everyone knows your game and you will be in the unemployment line. Cheers*
Anxietyguy 5-11-05:
Quote:Oh I forgot you only need a GED to perform polygraphs.
Bill Crider 5-25-05:
This one is my favorite, very creative Quote:DarkCobra, you are an idiot, wrapped in a moron, covered by a fool. take your polygraph and shove it up your @ss.
Polyfool 5-26-05:
Quote:I suppose expecting a little intelligence from you is too much to ask. I apologize for the mistake. It won't happen again.
Now, I will admit that the ferociousness of the comments has gotten better, but I think you have a long way to go overall. I’m sure many of you have gained some respect for the “Shady Snake,” I know I have. I have respect for many of the non-examiners as well. I hope I have shown that respect on all occasions when posting here.
Polyfool, you say:
Quote:Now, a question for you. Why are you so interested in polygraphy? You say you're not an examiner, you've never taken one, yet you obviously feel passionate about it. Why?
I thought the answer would be obvious based on my very first posting to the site. My father is an examiner. He has been in the industry as an independent examiner for many years. His life’s work is of interest to me. He believes polygraph to be a useful tool and can, in the hands of the right person, be used to accurately detect deception. I, of course, believe him. Why should he lie to me about it? He’s never lied to me before. Besides, the man is a human lie detector himself. Long before going to polygraph school he could sniff out a lie like a hound dog on the trail of a fox.
So then, I find this site and decide to see what the opponents have to say. The more I read, the more I was intrigued. Yes, the snide comments by both polygraph proponents and opponents tick me off. But, the underlying debate has merit on both sides. After reading George’s story, I decided I needed to pay careful attention to his postings. I read TLBTLD. Then I re-read it.
I then asked myself, can I help? Is it possible to bring the two sides together to further the debate and gain true understanding? I can tell you, the resistance I’ve met so far makes me think it is possible, but very unlikely. But, being the eternal optimist that I am, I decided to wade into the debate and try it anyway.
So, here I am. I’m your average citizen who is now tuned into the debate. I’d like to help. I don’t have any scientific or psychological background, but I can sure tell you what the average person will or won’t buy into. I think you guys need an outside perspective. Granted, I am biased towards the use of polygraph, but I have a lot of strong views about the use of it being very limited and much regulated. But, because polygraph isn’t my lively hood, the abolishment won’t affect me. It won’t really even affect my father as he is slowly scaling back the number of tests he runs and will eventually retire altogether. Also, I haven’t had the misfortune to be the subject of a botched exam. I know that makes you feel very strongly about the issue, but perhaps it also taints your view a bit too.
For those of you who are still skeptical about my intentions, or that maybe I’m one of those dubious polygraph examiners who are just posing as someone else. Feel free to ask the Administrator of the site whether the IP address I’m posing from doesn’t match my story. I happen to know the IP address should actually tell him which Insurance company I work for.
Speaking of Insurance… George, you said:
Quote:Thank you for explaining the situation with your own liability insurance. It does seem odd to me that your insurance company would require you to obtain liability waivers that have no legal force. But I have no further questions of you in this regard.
Thank God! Something I can speak with authority on. Professional Liability insurance policies (also called E&O policies) vary from company to company. Each company also decides their underwriting requirements for their policies. There is no true “standard” in the industry as professional Liability policies are very unique and pose the greatest risk in most instances. The policy language may not require that a waiver be signed by a subject; the policies are usually worded very broadly. But, the underwriter of the policy can always require proof of certain documents used in the course of conducting certain types of business.
As Darkcobra states, these waivers are as worthless as the paper they are written on. Similar waivers and release documents are signed in the course of settling claims, but they are just as worthless. I’ve seen them defeated in court many times. Yet, the insurance companies still use them. It amounts to a handshake agreement and makes the person who received the settlement a little less likely to reopen the claim. The only waiver or release forms that do withstand the scrutiny of the courts are the ones where the lawyer of the person who signs the form also signs off on the form. This indicates that the person’s lawyer was there to fully explain the language to his client before the client signed the form. I doubt many people who take a polygraph bring their lawyer with them to co-sign any documents. Maybe they should?
Next time you rent a car, take a look at the waivers and releases in that agreement. Yikes!
Anyhow, the weekend is finally here. I hope everyone has a great weekend.
Mercible