Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion (Read 8122 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Brandon Hall
Ex Member


Re: Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion
Reply #15 - Aug 7th, 2005 at 6:37pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Nonombre,

I suppose the deception on the examiner's part would be the lack of full disclosure about the test.  Do you explain to your examinee's that you will be asking a series of questions in the in-test, however only certain questions will be scored while the remainder is filler?  A naive examinee believes all questions to hold the same importance, even the ridiculous, "Are the lights on in this room?" for example.

To me the R/I sounds to be more like a GKT.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box nonombre
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 334
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005
Re: Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion
Reply #16 - Aug 7th, 2005 at 8:53pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Nonombre,

I suppose the deception on the examiner's part would be the lack of full disclosure about the test.  Do you explain to your examinee's that you will be asking a series of questions in the in-test, however only certain questions will be scored while the remainder is filler?  A naive examinee believes all questions to hold the same importance, even the ridiculous, "Are the lights on in this room?" for example....


Brandon,

"Are the lights on in this room?" is an example of an irrelevant question (IR). 

In fact, IR's are not "filler" at all, nor are they "ridiculous," as you imply.  Irrelevant questions are inserted at the beginning of a polygraph chart to absorb the examinee's "orienting response" and are distributed throughout the test to allow the examine to return to a state of homeostasis after a physiological response to a particular question.

In addition, although I do not get into any lengthy  discussions over the specific purpose of the the IR questions, I certainly do not withhold any information regarding their use from the examinee, especially if he asks.

Now, not to sound like a "broken record," but I still fail to see how I am deceiving anybody...

Regards,

Nonombre      
???
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Marty
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 27th, 2002
Re: Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion
Reply #17 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 12:56am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The R/I is believed to have a higher false positive rate, but lower false negative rate than the PLCQT (see Matte). While it doesn't require the examiner deception of a PLCQT, to be effective, the examinee needs to believe the polygraph will be accurate in their examination and so there is a bit of chicken and egg situation here. Since the relevants are stark and obvious, many will not be sufficiently calmed by the examiner and may score sufficiently above baseline to be found deceptive. Another problem is individual differences. Early in the history of polygraphy, examiners tried various techniques to account for these variances and the PLCQT evolved as an improved approach - in spite of the obvious ethical issues involved.

One problem with both R/I and PLCQTs are that examinees who are familiar with the techniques involved may yield higher false positives on the R/I while the PLCQT may yield higher false negtatives as the test essentially changes into a DLCQT.

There is some, fairly polarized debate about the DLCQT, especially re false negatives. Much speculation, too little actual research.

Marty
  

Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box anxietyguy
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 121
Joined: Apr 19th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion
Reply #18 - Nov 23rd, 2005 at 4:01am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
After reviewing this thread what is the best approach, showing a reaction to two different relevant questions on two different charts?Or possibly showing a reaction to an irrelevant question?
Anxiety
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box anxietyguy
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 121
Joined: Apr 19th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion
Reply #19 - Nov 23rd, 2005 at 4:48pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I have heard of more pre-employment poly's going this way in my area for law enforcement...i dont know if reacting to two different relevant questions is the way to go..anyone have input?
Anxiety
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion
Reply #20 - Nov 23rd, 2005 at 9:42pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
anxietyguy,

The countermeasures suggested for the R/I technique in TLBTLD are based on federal scoring standards. There's no telling what scoring criteria a non-federal agency might employ. In such a case, it may be best to stick to behavioral countermeasures.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Relevant/Irrelevant “Test” confusion

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X