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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Sergeant1107
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #60 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 4:48pm
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tasercop wrote on Jul 7th, 2005 at 11:14pm:
Some of the people on this forum were unjustly denied a job because of a failed polygraph and were not given the benefit of subsequent follow-up examinations.  For them, I agree it was wrong, but hardly justifies stopping its use.  Most of the people who post here, however, do not seem as if they have the honesty, integrity and fortitude of someone who should wear a badge or work with national secrets.  I believe they are living proof that the system works.

Tasercop,
If I am reading your post correctly, you agree that some people on this site were unjustly denied a job because of a failed polygraph.  Even though you agree that is wrong you don’t see how that would justify an end to polygraph use in pre-employment screening.

However, when you refer to the people who failed the polygraph because they don’t have the honesty, integrity, or fortitude to wear a badge or work with national secrets, you believe their example is proof that the polygraph works.

With all due respect, how can you look at the statistics in such a selective manner?  You look at some anecdotal evidence and dismiss it out of hand as insignificant, certainly not enough to cause one to doubt the validity of the polygraph.  Then you take another set of anecdotal evidence and claim it to be proof the polygraph works.

Why did some percentage of applicants unjustly fail and subsequently not be offered employment?  Shouldn’t there be some scientifically repeatable variable which caused them to fail a test you seem to agree they should not have failed?  Why did the applicants reportedly lacking in honesty, integrity, or fortitude fail their tests?  Were all the variables and controls set up properly in their tests?

Please don’t use the tired old excuse of “there are bad examiners out there.”  That sounds no more convincing than the pointy-haired boss in “Dilbert” claiming that profits were up last quarter because of good management, but down this quarter because of bad employees.
« Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2005 at 5:12pm by Sergeant1107 »  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #61 - Jul 23rd, 2005 at 10:06am
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Well, 60 posts later and I just got notice that I have passed both the phsych. & polygraph Cheesy. Im glad to have started the forums on a "lively" conversation.

Can someone help me with the bench press now  Tongue

Gates21
  
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #62 - Jul 23rd, 2005 at 4:34pm
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gates21 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2005 at 10:06am:
Well, 60 posts later and I just got notice that I have passed both the phsych. & polygraph Cheesy. Im glad to have started the forums on a "lively" conversation.

Can someone help me with the bench press now  Tongue

Gates21

Congratulations on getting this far in the process!  Good luck on the rest of it and good luck at the academy.
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #63 - Jul 28th, 2005 at 12:04am
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Recently took my first poly.  It was a nightmare.  I wish I had found this site before going in.  There was a set of "sex" questions which consisted of things like "Have you ever had sex with animals, have you ever molested kids, etc." I was so disturbed and upset by the questions because I think those are such horrible things that my heart started racing.  She asked the questions a second time saying I had moved (I was not aware that I had moved).  I told her after the second round of questions that the fact she continued to ask me these horrible questions made me nervous.  I have never done anything wrong--never even tasted alcohol, never had drugs, certainly never involved with sexual perversion--and was very worried that my nervousness would make it appear that I was lying.  The lady told me that the test was 95% accurate and that if I didn't do  anything wrong than I shouldn't have anything to worry about. She then asked me the sex questions a third time and by then I was ready to freak out. I never want to take another poly again. It was  horrible experience.

She made me feel like a criminal and like I had done something wrong when I know that I am a good person and was not lying!!!

I wonder how long it will take before I hear my results.  She said she wasn't allowed to tell me and could only give them to the agency (it was for a law enforcement job) requesting them. It will be a miracle if I passed.
  
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #64 - Jul 28th, 2005 at 2:28am
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Phil413,

Your experience has similarities to mine.  It causes one to wonder if the examiner relishes in asking questions regarding sexual deviance in an attempt to satisfy his own urges through proxy or simply for his own amusement.  I had the added pleasure of being subjected to a question of "have you ever had sex with a dead person."  Not only was I taken aback I became livid.  Though I tried to not show my anger outwardly, I am sure it was apparent.

I see no reason for sexual questions to begin with defined specificity.  A simple question to lead off the topic should be: "have you ever engaged in unlawful sexual activities or conduct."  If the examinee answers yes, the topic should be explored.  The majority of applicants, I would assume, would be uncomfortable if not unnerved by the types of questions both you and I were asked.

This area of questioning has been a bone of contention of mine since I was "tested" in January.  I was informed prior to testing that I would only be queried regarding responses on my background questionaire.  The only question relating to sexual conduct was a general one like the example given above.

Other aggressive techniques and improper behaviors were exhibited by the examiner.  He was, in my opinion, the biggest jerk on the planet.  My opinion has not changed.

By the way, I didn't "pass."  The examiner influenced physiological response by his method of sensitization to one particular relevant question.  However, I haven't given up and neither should you.  I have a few more tests lined up in the near future.  Good luck.
  
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #65 - Jul 28th, 2005 at 4:40am
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Thanks, Brandon.  You made me feel much better.  On my original application it said that I would be asked questions from the application and not one of them was about anything sexual in nature.  When I went in for my poly I filled out a two page paper and none of those questions had anything to do with anything sexual. Then, when it was time for the actual exam and the examiner began asking these questions I was so taken aback that I laughed at first.

You said, "I see no reason for sexual questions to begin with defined specificity." and I completely agree.  It was not only disturbing because I felt as if I was a criminal being accused of these atrocities but it was also embarrassing.

Thanks for your encouragement.
  
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #66 - Jul 28th, 2005 at 4:59am
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I just thought of a couple of questions I had regarding the test I recently took.
1.  The agency that I was taking the poly for told me not to be worried about the test because the examiner would ask me questions like "Is your name_____?" and that would show them how I answered while being nervous and telling the truth.  I was then told that I would be asked a question to which I would lie so that there would be a reading of how I responded when I was lying and nervous.  When I went to take the test, I was not told to respond with a lie to any of the questions to test my response when lying.  Was I supposed to be asked to do this?

2.  Now that I've read this website and studied about how inaccurate these "tests" are I am concerned about what to do when I have to re-test (the way the examiner was acting and by my own racing heart there is almost no chance I passed). When I took my poly the other day they asked "Have you read anything about polygraphs? Are you going to try to beat the test? Have you read about how to beat the test?" I had not so I was able to answer "No" truthfully.  What will they do when I say yes to these questions should I have to re-test?
  
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #67 - Jul 28th, 2005 at 7:17am
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Phil413 wrote:
Quote:
1.  The agency that I was taking the poly for told me not to be worried about the test because the examiner would ask me questions like "Is your name_____?" and that would show them how I answered while being nervous and telling the truth.  I was then told that I would be asked a question to which I would lie so that there would be a reading of how I responded when I was lying and nervous.  When I went to take the test, I was not told to respond with a lie to any of the questions to test my response when lying.  Was I supposed to be asked to do this?


The first part regarding your name is a bullshit tactic.  This question says nothing and reveals nothing as it has an established ground truth.  The directed lie test, the second part of this question, is in the same category as the first part.  It is a technique that some examiners, not all, use.

Phil 413 wrote:
Quote:
2.  Now that I've read this website and studied about how inaccurate these "tests" are I am concerned about what to do when I have to re-test (the way the examiner was acting and by my own racing heart there is almost no chance I passed). When I took my poly the other day they asked "Have you read anything about polygraphs? Are you going to try to beat the test? Have you read about how to beat the test?" I had not so I was able to answer "No" truthfully.  What will they do when I say yes to these questions should I have to re-test?


When re-testing or testing with another agency my suggestion is to be honest about the information you have learned.  This will probably subject you to further questioning and possibly unfairly influence the examiner's opinion of you.  So be it.  Examiners regulary (without fail) advise and instruct examinees to be completely honest.  Give them what they want whether they want to hear it or not.  This advice is quite comical as the examinee is expected to lie on controls.  If you are completely honest it screws with their "accuracy."

I will hopefully be tested again soon.  If so I'll let you know what happens.  I refuse to let these "tests" derail my desire to become a police officer.
  
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #68 - Jul 29th, 2005 at 7:52pm
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I am really regretting taking this polygraph and I still don't know if I passed or not.  My poly was for an unpaid volunteer laboratory position and after reading this site I don't think I should have agreed to it in the first place.  I figured I would pass with flying colors so I readily agreed and in my naiveté I thought it would be an interesting experience.

In briefly reading some of the information on this site I can only identifiy one control question and several irrelevant questions during my hour long poly. Is this typical?

My control question was "have you ever stolen anything from work?" Of course I've accidentally taken home pens or paper clips but nothing that I've purposely stolen (and I was actually thinking that when I was asked the question) so I said "No." In hindsight I'm wondering if I was expected to say "Yes."

I can remember at least 5 irrelevant questions that were asked.

I'm really mad over this whole experience and the way I was tricked.  I thought the pre-test interview and questions were necessary and I had no idea the was I was answering the questions or my body language was being analyzed during this time.

I have already passed on information regarding polygraphs and this site to several people who were like me, completely unaware and uninformed!
  
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Re: Just took my first poly...
Reply #69 - Jul 31st, 2005 at 6:15am
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For what it's worth, those who support the use of polygraphy fail to understand why many seek knowledge about this "test", the most critical being the fear of failure (ie false positive) result.

I, too, have a polygraph upcoming for law enforcement-and fail to understand why this piece in inclusive in an already demanding process:  a background investigation including criminal background check, reference checks, drug screens, letters of recommendation, fulfillment of the neccessary educational requirments should be enough-and I have a sense of nervousness about the possibility of failing at this point.

It borders on the absurd.  Anyone would be a fool not to come prepared to a polygraph exam.
  
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