DarkCobra2005,

By my reading of your response you seem like a reasonable type.  Can we agree that it is not unreasonable to look to George's under lying motives in creating this website, while aso looking at Polygraph itself in the abstract ?  A Jury can do so about the motives of a murderer in a murder case, as well as look at the evidence of murder itself.   

Did it strike you as odd that George talked about both the Examiners E. Youngblood and J. Trimarco as having failed him in their respective polygraph tests without any motive on their part.  I wondered why George did not get a re-test using his countermeasures to prove them wrong.   

My assesment of George is that he is a classic over achiever who probably never failed at anything in his life until he tried to outsmart these guys.  I further wondered if his countermeasures simply failed him then !  In reality we have only his half of the respective stories about his tests.  Otherwise, these Examiners seem to have well established careers with numerous awards.  Youngblood = The Examiner who tested and caught the greatest seriel killer of all time- The Angel of Death Case in L.A. .  Trimarco = a classic over achiever in his own right within the FBI, as well as now in the private sector.  Further, each of which are known to me to be good family men and patriots.  You and I seem to have less than this opinion of George, and we have only his words and actions to measure this without having met him. 

In my estimation, and in all that I have read on this site, George's writings and actions are indicative of someone who simply would not have worked out in the FBI and/or greater intelligence community.  Althought he swore an oath to the constitution of the United States as a U.S. Army Intelligence Officer, and further understood that he was tasked with protecting the sources and methods of intelligence gathering, he has attempted to "Compromise" that, a choice he must now live with.  It would not surprise me that when he sets foot on U.S. soil again that he may be facing some investigative efforts and/or prosecution; civil or criminal.   

In closing, can we agree that "Curious George" is a wasted life.  The irony is that his actions have now labled him as unreliable in the minds of any reasonable background investigator who might seek to hire him for intelligence work, regardless of his polygraph test.  The very mission we U.S. Taxpayers invested in for George's training ( Intelligence & Arab Language skills) can no longer be put to use by him as an American for his country.  Not because of the Polygraph he blames, but when looking at the overall picture of him, his methods, and timing !  There will never be another time in George's lifetime wherein his country would have needed him more, and his belief that only the polygraph stood in the way of the needs of the United States is naive, and deceptive to us all !   

I agree with you that George should stay in Holland or some other Socialist nation.  He is apparently more comfortable in a nation like that, or France, which has lost its / their respective identities to massive Arab / Islamic immigration.   

In the end I can only arrive that George I took the same oath as George, but I meant it with my heart, and I write you with the feeling that in doing so I, like you DarkCobra2005, am protecting my country (no substitutes) from all enemies foreign and domestic, for which George qualifies as both ! 

TheNoLieGuy4U

TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on May 28^th, 2005 at 9:05am:

I think he didn't know about countermeasures until being accused of lieing in his first two polygraphs.

TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on May 28^th, 2005 at 9:05am:

Once again, I don't think CM's applied to his own situation.  I'm sure we'd all like to get the polygraphers "side to our own story" but what are the chances of getting a truthful account of their version of "the facts"?

TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on May 28^th, 2005 at 9:05am:

Please.  Perhaps he's trying to help hius country by exposing the corrupt polygraph process and how it can easily be defeated with minimal effort, while at the same time rule honorable and decent people deceptive on no rationale basis.

TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on May 28^th, 2005 at 9:05am:

The country cast him aside and didn't want him.  He decided to use his skills where they were in desire.

TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on May 28^th, 2005 at 9:05am:


Complete ignorance to confuse government economic policy (Socialist) with a governments form of government (democratic/monarchy etc).  So holland provides gov't paid helathcare?  So what.  Ever hear of medicaid?  I'm assuming you work fo rthe government in the US, and with government growth, more and more people are on US government paid helathcare.  Does that make the US socialist?  The Dutch government may own the railroad.  So what.  Ever hear of Amtrak?

Comparing Holland with France is indicitave that you've been to neither.  And even if they were similar -- so what.
TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on May 28^th, 2005 at 9:05am:

George left the service honorably.  And how does his exposure of government waste, fraud and abuse qualify him as a traitor in your eyes (your pathatec job being directly effected by his criticism aside?)

Thenolieuy wrote to Darkcobra2005:

Quote:


Unfortunately that was the only intelligent portion of nolieguy's post and the only portion with which I am in agreement.  Without details I can vouch for the cobra's willingness to be reasonable and open.

As to the nolieguy:  I must ask, do you look for a conspiracy in all facets of your life?  Perhaps if you would care to reveal details of your life we all could similarly make assumptions about you.  Your misdirection regarding the topic of this thread is simply childish and moreover, lacking in intelligence.  I suppose in your view the exposure of, for example, the Iran Contra debacle was unpatriotic and against American values.  Now that's quite stupid isn't it?  We as Americans, anywhere, have the right to stand up and give voice when we see or percieve injustice.  Most of us on this board view polygraphy as an injustice and an obstacle to just decision making.  If you would care to add to that discussion by all means please do so.  If you care only to insult those of us in opposition of your views and attempt to spread rumor and misinformation please crawl back under the rock from which you slithered.

It is misleading to state that polygraph examiners are skilled at detecting countermeasures when the only proof is that some of the examinees accused of employing countermeasures later admit to doing so.  The clear problem is a lack of scientific control on the method of verification.  A polygraph examiner faces no negative repercussions should he or she wrongfully accuse someone of using countermeasures.  Therefore, there is no incentive for them to withhold their accusations from anyone who arouses even the faintest suspicions that they may be employing countermeasures.

Ironically, the reasoning behind the countermeasure detection issue is remarkably similar to the reasoning behind the use of the polygraph itself:

Countermeasure Detection – Examiners are free to accuse anyone of countermeasure use.  Anyone who is accused and later admits that they were using countermeasures is held up as living proof that countermeasures can be detected.  The unproven accusations are forgotten.

Polygraph Accuracy – Examiners are free to accuse anyone of deception during the “test.”  Anyone accused of deception who later makes a damaging admission or is convicted in court is then held up as a shining example that polygraphs are accurate.  The unproven accusations are forgotten.

Regardless of the specific issue, the methodology is completely illogical and inaccurate.  If one hundred people are polygraphed, fifty of them are accused of countermeasure use, and five of them admit to it, pointing to those five as proof that countermeasures are detectable is laughable.  Likewise, if one hundred people are polygraphed, fifty of them are accused of deception, and five of them later admit to being deceptive, it is ridiculous to point to those five cases as proof that the polygraph can be used to detect deception.

TheNoLieGuy4You,

I would suggest to you (and others who may share your point of view) that truth-telling in the public interest is not unpatriotic.

The centerpiece of America's counterintelligence policy -- polygraph "testing"-- is a pseudoscientific fraud. It has no scientific basis and is easily defeated by simple countermeasures that polygraphers cannot reliably detect. Reliance on this bogus technology has caused considerable harm to both national security and individuals, examples of which are cited in Chapter 2 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.

If anyone's patriotism is to be questioned--perhaps it is that of those who, in the face of overwhelming evidence of the polygraph's unreliability--(ab)use their positions of power to promote continued reliance on it.

Quote:


Excellent point shadow...this is where we are at as a society…disgusting.

That's weak jeffy.  Your ahh shucks oh well someone else’s fault is typical.  It has always been someone else’s fault, just like the “machine was broke” when you failed your test right?