Normal Topic Appeal after admission?? (Read 5427 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box exFBIRecruit
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 11th, 2005
Appeal after admission??
Apr 12th, 2005 at 5:29pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I am a recently "failed" FBI recruit.  I sailed through the first 2 phases of the process and got screwed in the poly.  Unfortuantley I knew nothing of this site or what to expect until after I failed.  The a-hole polygrapher used just about every technique in Georges book!  In the end he told me that if I get up and leave and blame the machine, then all hopes of working for the FBI would be gone, however if I wrote an amendmant to my application he would fight for me to get a re-test.  I felt that this was b.s. from the beginning but fell for his giving me one last chance crap.  I failed on the drug portion and he told me that I don't need to admit to any drug usage outside of the guidelines, but rather specify "more realistic range"  i.e. used illegal drugs between 5-8 times etc..  The question I got caught up on was the sale of illegal drugs.  When the polygrapher insisted that I write down a range for how many times I sold drugs, I wrote down " from 0-3 times"  He asked why I wrote down zero and I told him because I had never sold drugs and was just complying with his wishes for a "range" of the number of times.  My letter came yesterday stating that the employment offer is being rescinded because it is not within their guidelines to employ people that have sold drugs!

My question is:  Can I appeal the results and ask for a re-test if I fell for their mind fu@k and signed their "admission" letter???
Thanks to all in advance!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill Crider
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 213
Joined: Mar 26th, 2004
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #1 - Apr 12th, 2005 at 5:43pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
i replied to your pm before i read this. 0-3 times you sold drugs? you arent sure if it was 0 or not? that strikes me as fairly insane and there is not a snowball's chance in hell you will get an appeal.

im sorry, ex-recruit, but i cant imagine any scenario und the sun where a person who hasnt sold drugs will write down 0-3. you werent the victim of a mind f**k, you were busted by a good interrogator.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #2 - Apr 12th, 2005 at 5:50pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I'm saddened to read of your experience, and sadder to say that the chances of your being granted a "re-test," passing it, and going on to be hired by the FBI are close to zero. Worse still, this will adversely affect your job prospects with other federal agencies that require a security clearance.

However, nothing prevents you from appealing the results and asking for a "re-test," and it would be prudent to do so. In your letter, you should clearly emphasize that you have never sold an illegal drug, and explain the polygrapher's behavior that led to your signing the statement "admitting" to having sold drugs "0-3 times."

Even if, as I expect, no "re-test" is granted, your letter should be added to your FBI HQ file, which is a permanent government record that will be reviewed if you ever seek any position that requires a security clearance. You don't want the last thing in that file to be your "admission" to having sold drugs without any explanation of the circumstances leading thereto.

Feel free to name and shame the polygrapher who did this to you. His/her identity is not a state secret.
« Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2005 at 6:14pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #3 - Apr 12th, 2005 at 5:56pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Bill Crider wrote on Apr 12th, 2005 at 5:43pm:
...im sorry, ex-recruit, but i cant imagine any scenario und the sun where a person who hasnt sold drugs will write down 0-3. you werent the victim of a mind f**k, you were busted by a good interrogator.


Re-read exFBIRecruit's post. He/she explained quite well his/her reason for signing this statement. It is not hard at all to imagine that someone who hasn't sold drugs would sign such a statement when told that it's his/her only option if he/she wants to continue in the hiring process.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box exFBIRecruit
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 11th, 2005
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2005 at 6:08pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
pillpopper,
this "good interrogator" would not let up until I specified some "range" for all questions he felt I was being deceptive on regarding drugs.  I asked him if I should specify a range of "0-0" in which he replied that it would be seen that I was "blaming the equipment" and not showing "integrity" by admitting something.  I thought that even putting a "0" down in the range was statement enough to show him that I was in fact telling the truth on that question.  He questioned me on the range of 0-3 before he would sign it and asked me to change it to a 1-3 range.
To answer your question, I AM sure it was 0 times and was very adament about that in the post interview!  the range that you find "insane" was prompted from this "interrogator" that you believe is good!
Again, the only reason I went along with what this guy wanted is, he WAS succesful in getting me to believe that he was on my side and I still had a chance as long as I signed his paper!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Twoblock
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 732
Location: AR.
Joined: Oct 15th, 2002
Gender: Male
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #5 - Apr 12th, 2005 at 9:37pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
pillpopper

"Good interrogator" my anal squeeze. What the polygrapher did was prove himself a sadistic liar with no integrity what so ever. That line of interrogation is nothing but a power trip "trap" not unlike the power trip of rapists. This appears to be a good man whos LEO possibilities have been ruined by one tinker toy machine and one (hate to call him a) man's power decision. The really sad thing is that our stupid, crooked deal making legislators in Wash. D. C. lets it happen.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill Crider
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 213
Joined: Mar 26th, 2004
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #6 - Apr 12th, 2005 at 11:10pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
ok. fair enough. ill take your word for it. your mistake then was not guilt, but being too weak. they tried the same shit with me tho i was not asked to sign papers. i was told we could "go on" if i could give him something. there was nothing to give so i walked out. i ended up getting an appeal but i failed it too. lol. he wanted me to admit to something too and by failure #4 I was pissed and told him i didnt give a damn what his machine said, I stand by my statement. he showed me the door and that was the end of my career before it started, but no son of a bitch is ever gonna get me to admit somehting i didnt do.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box NSAreject
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 91
Location: Maryland
Joined: Apr 22nd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #7 - Apr 13th, 2005 at 3:08am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
"Good interrogator", my anal squeeze. What the polygrapher did, was prove himself a sadistic liar with no integrity what so ever.


Yea, and I had my share of, "I'm your friend",
interrogators at the NSA. Since my last guy denied
knowing about counter-measures, does that classify him
as a liar, with no integrity (do any of them have an
ounce of integrity) ?  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box exFBIRecruit
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Joined: Apr 11th, 2005
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #8 - Apr 13th, 2005 at 5:15am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Pillpopper,
fair enough!  I will definitely admit weakness in that moment because for someone that figured that he had nothing to hide so the poly and the background were just formalities, I thought that my philosophy should be to cooperate at all costs.  I wanted to come in, do what the FBI told me and move on to the next level.  I thought I had made it past the hard stuff with Phases 1 and 2.  I sure wish that I had found this web site before my poly because with absolutely no poly knowledge or experience I wasn’t worried at all.

I realize now after reading TLBTLD that this guy might as well have been reading from the DDoPI training manual.  He even used the exact statements that were supposed to appear as random statements, i.e.. "tell me what’s on your mind" etc etc.   
My crime here was naivety, but in the end I am sure glad that this experience has opened my eyes to the kind of people that are in charge of our national security!   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Brandon Hall
Ex Member


Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #9 - Apr 13th, 2005 at 6:59am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Exfbirecruit said Quote:
with absolutely no poly knowledge or experience I wasn’t worried at all.


I had the same stance prior to my poly.  I was under the assumption that the truth would stand guard.  I too was very wrong.  However, I made no admissions to acts which I had not committed as I knew such a false admission would be nothing but damaging.  It sounds as though your poly artist completed his work as he was trained.  He backed you into a corner.  Just know that the shame is all his own.

NSAreject said Quote:
Since my last guy denied 
knowing about counter-measures, does that classify him as a liar, with no integrity (do any of them have an 
ounce of integrity)


A polygraph artist a liar?  The hell you say   Grin.  Integrity is the word the poly artists preach.  Although, I don't believe they know the definition.  Just take a look at the folks at polygraphplace.  They speak from both sides of their mouths.  They are quite humorous though.

-Brandon
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box NSAreject
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 91
Location: Maryland
Joined: Apr 22nd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #10 - Apr 13th, 2005 at 12:59pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Brandon,

 After reading through the posts on
polygraphplace.com, it is easy to see how a naive
person would get suckered into trusting polygraphers;
it is a sick little club of liars, deceivers, and 
manipulators.  It is ironic how NSA security preaches
unquestioned loyalty and integrity, while their
polygraphers represent just the opposite; just look at
the type of posts, left here by Anal Sphincter.  I am so
glad, that I am now miles away from them, figuratively
speaking.   It is also ironic, that many NSA employees
had to learn the same type of tactics, to survive their
own disfunctional childhoods.  I wonder how many NSA
employees have done research on polygraphs on the
Internet - they would be too damn scared (but, I bet
they look at their share of pornography  Cheesy) !  Maybe,
I should rename my alias to, rejectNSA...
« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2005 at 5:38pm by NSAreject »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box polyfool
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 311
Joined: Feb 23rd, 2005
Re: Appeal after admission??
Reply #11 - Apr 14th, 2005 at 3:27am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
ExFBIRecruit:

When you write your appeal letter make sure to include your polygrapher's name and everything he did and said to you. Even if you don't get a second test (which you wouldn't pass anyway,) at least your letter will provide some context for why you admitted to something you didn't do. I never really believed in false confessions until I was exposed to a situation similiar to yours. I understand how tempting it is when a poly examiner tells you that everything will be okay if you just admit to what he wants. The mind games can be very powerful, especially when you don't know what you are getting yourself into w/ the poly and blindly believe that all you have to do is tell the truth. I, too was falsley accused of selling drugs, but refused to give in to the examiner's pressures. You shouldn't beat yourself up about your false admission. It sounds like your poly examiner used every dirty trick in the book. Not all examiners are created equal, which is why others shouldn't criticize you without having been in your exact situation. Polygraphs are biased against the very truthful. Write your letter and move on with your job search. It will make you feel better. Would you really want to work for an agency that uses this trashy, so-called test procedure to choose its employees? Good luck and try not to let it get the best of you.
« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2005 at 3:48pm by polyfool »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Appeal after admission??

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X