Normal Topic Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control? (Read 6455 times)
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Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Feb 14th, 2005 at 6:17am
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I've taken one polygraph before for the NSA about a month and a half ago.  I felt as though it went pretty well.  I felt a little tense during the lifestyle/counterintelligence portion of the exam because I knew that my career could depend on it, but I think I got through it all right.  The examiner never told me I had a blip or a flicker anywhere specifically, just that after the test I didn't seem to be particularly honest with the questions regarding foreign nationals, drug use, crime history, and being honest regarding my security forms/interviews (i.e., all of the questions other than those involving my name, birthdate/place, etc).

The first question asked was a standard 'answer 'NO' to this regardless of what I ask' type of question.  So, let's say:
Is the month we're in *?

Obviously, the examiner would have said the correct month at one point and I would have lied during that time. There were no control questions just relevant/irrelevant (although they were relevant in a way).

The other questions were basically those mentioned above:
Is your name....?
Were you born.....?
Is your birthdate....?
A test or two was done with these questions and possibly a few other basic factual questions about me (my memory is failing me).

Then I was asked (in another grouping of 2 or 3 tests):
Do you have any secret contacts with foreign nationals?
Have you been honest with your security forms?
Have you committed any serious crimes?
Have you ever *** with drugs (don't remember the wording)?

I answered truthfully to everything.  After the test, s/he left for about 10-15 minutes and came back to tell me that s/he wanted me to be honest regarding the last set of questions.  S/he told me that my test showed an aggitation during those questions  but never showed me anything and was never more specific.  Admittedly, I was nervous because they're serious matters.

I was adamant about not having tried drugs (since s/he seemed to focus on that one above all others).  I'm not a person that got into drugs, wouldn't know where to buy them if I wanted to.  I don't think it leads to a healthy lifestyle, same reason I don't smoke cigs. or eat fast food.

Anyhow, I don't wish to retell the whole episode, but I'm curious to know when I'm supposed to employ countermeasures in such a situation (IR/R test) should I choose to in the future polygraph I'm scheduled for.  Should I employ them during the factual questions, the name/birthplace type of questions?  What about the initial 'always say "NO"' question?

Thanks for any advice you have for me.  Also, please tell me if you need more information regarding what happened to be able to help me further.

Also, any idea why it would have taken me 6 weeks to be contacted for another poly instead of less?  AND, what does the following mean (from the ebook on the site):

"In addition, recall that with this technique polygraphers look for “consistent, specific, and significant” responses to a particular relevant question over multiple charts. You can prevent such a pattern from occurring by simply producing responses to two differing groups of two relevant questions within the different chart presentations."

"two differing groups of two relevant questions within the different chart presentations"?

Alternate between 2 questions the first round and two quesitons the second, and back and forth through the 3-4 chart presentations.
« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2005 at 9:11am by applicant123 »  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #1 - Feb 14th, 2005 at 4:47pm
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What do you mean by an "IR/R" test?  Do you mean an R/I test?  If you are talking about an R/I test, then you can't lie on the obvious truth questions, such as "Is today Thursday?"  Also, using any countermeasures by inflating the obvious truth questions would be a dead give-away that you were using countermeasures.  I simply wouldn't mess around at all in a polygraph exam, especially and R/I test.
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #2 - Feb 14th, 2005 at 6:27pm
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applicant123,

The Relevant/Irrelevant technique has been the National Security Agency's standby technique since the 1950s, when its polygraphers were trained by the Keeler Polygraph Institute in Chicago.

Your account is the first I have read about NSA polygraphers instructing applicants to answer irrelevant questions "no" regardless of whether such a reply would be true or false. In any event, irrelevant questions are not scored.

Be aware that it is the NSA polygraph unit's standard operating procedure to subject applicants to more than one polygraph session. Virtually everyone is initially subjected to vague accusations of having "problems," interrogated, and then (if no disqualifying admission have been made) brought back for one or more "re-tests." The NSA polygraph unit may, at its discretion, subject applicants to as many as three polygraph sessions, and it appears that it frequently does so. (This would tend to ensure full employment and maximum funding for the NSA polygraph unit.) Applicants may also be administered more than three pre-employment polygraph examinations, but this requires approval from higher levels. For documentation of the NSA's polygraph regulation, see:

http://antipolygraph.org/read.shtml#NSA

I'm not sure how to explain countermeasures to the R/I technique more clearly than has already been done in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. The point is to produce reactions to a different pair of questions during each chart collection or question series, to ensure that reactions to no one question stand out compared to others. If you are uncomfortable with this, then you might want to limit yourself to the behavioral countermeaures outlined in TLBTLD.
  

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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #3 - Feb 14th, 2005 at 10:01pm
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Not a bad explanation, George.   Smiley
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2005 at 7:16am
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I don't believe there were any irrelevant questions on the test.

The question I was asked to respond 'no' to was the stimulation question, the first one to supposedly calibrate the machine.

Name, birthplace, birthdate, secret contacts, serious crimes, drugs, honesty with regard to forms all seem relevant based on the description in the book.  I really don't believe that there were any irrelevant questions looking back on it.

Is it possible there were no irrelevant questions between the "the test will now begin" and "the test has now concluded"?

Last thing:  It's the wording in the book that I didn't understand.  I like to be clear on things, so I'll be more specific this time about what I'm unsure. 

"The point is to produce reactions to a different pair of questions during each chart collection or question series, to ensure that reactions to no one question stand out compared to others."

Do I have to choose two, a pair?  If the question order is A BCDAE (each distinct letter represents a different question) for the first chart, CDABEDC for the second, and whatever else for the third.... would I choose two particular questions this round and then switch to two different questions during the second and third charts?   

If I choose A & B, would I respond to every instance of question A in the first chart or just the first time it's asked in the first chart?

Also, what happens if there are only 5 questions among the three charts?  Should I choose 2 questions, a different two, and then a mixture of the fifth (non-used) question and one I've already used?

Thanks a lot for all the help!  You've been great.
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2005 at 5:06pm
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The questions about your true name, date of birth, and place of birth were all irrelevant. However, NSA polygraphers routinely attempt to falsely convince examinees that these questions are relevant.

To countermeasure the I/R technique, one could alternatively choose to augment reactions to only a single relevant question per chart collection, rather than a pair of relevant questions. It would suffice to augment a reaction to any particular relevant question just once during a question series in the event that the question were to appear more than once during the series. And it would be better to avoid producing reactions to the same relevant question during different chart collections.
  

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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #6 - Feb 16th, 2005 at 2:23am
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I guess they are irrelevant since they can verify that information.  I was just thinking it's relevant since I could be hiding my true identity.  Irrelevant though, gotcha.

Even though they're not scored, couldn't I augment my response to one of those questions as well as (or instead of)   reacting to a random relevant question just to theoretically raise my threshold for how high the machine can deviate before the examiner thinks that I'm lying?  Obviously making a sharp reaction would be suspect, but maybe something more subtle?  I'm not really sure how sensitive the machine is, especially to the accuracy of the breathing.  Just curious.  Thanks again.
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #7 - Feb 16th, 2005 at 3:16am
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George,

   If the polygrapher has information they dont think you know they have, do they use this as ammunition during the polygraph or in the post-test interview?

Randy
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #8 - Feb 17th, 2005 at 11:57pm
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Not to answer for George, but simply to provide you with an experienced answer of my own:

The polygraph examiner will use that information against you in the pre-test and, if you fail the exam as you well may, he or she will also use it in the post-test interview or interrogation.
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #9 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 12:29am
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How would they use it in the pre-test? 

Flat out to elict admissions?

Randy
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #10 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 12:41am
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Let's say, for example, that the polygrapher has information that the background investigator has provided regarding a theft you committed in the past.  I've seen such an instance.  Well, the polygrapher is going to ask you about theft in the pre-test.  If you don't admit to it and then confirm his knowledge in the exam, he'll be talking to you about it in the post-test.

Now, contrary to what some fear-mongers on this forum believe, most polygraphers won't actually grill you in the post-test unless you actually fail the polygraph.  They may ask you, "What were you thinking about on this question?"  But that doesn't equate to a good grilling unless your denials are met with the ever-increasing pressure of a polygrapher who knows darn well his machine did work and also has evidence in addition to his machine that you really are being deceptive.
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #11 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 1:11am
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Yea, that is what amazes me. I would think they would take the information they have, and just prohibit you from taking the polygraph. Not give it to the polygrapher, just to beat you up with it. I always wondered if this type of thing could happen where they use the information just to beat down someone for the hell of it.

Randy
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 2:29am
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Anal,
    Would this apply to government polygraphs for intelligence agencies as well?  I'm referring to the part about only doing real grilling if information is known to be in the contrary and the person failed?

     Also, I know you wish to remain anonymous, but do you have personal experience being a government polygrapher?  You don't need to go into detail to satisfy my curiosity, just a yes or know will do.  I'm just curious if you have experience with your information pertaining to actual government practice.  Thanks.
  
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Re: Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?
Reply #13 - Feb 18th, 2005 at 3:07am
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Life lets you cross paths with many people of all walks of life, and I count among my friends polygraph examiners at the Federal, state and local level.  I have sufficient experience to know how the Federal system works, though.

Just because they have some derogatory information about you doesn't guarantee they'll use it when you expect them to.  You see, if a person has stolen something of significance, for example, chances are pretty darned good that it wasn't the first and only time that person stole something.  They know that, so they'll dig further.  It is my understanding that in the Federal system the background investigation is done fairly late in the order of things, as is the polygraph.  And any background investigation is a lengthy, ongoing thing.  Just because they find one thing to count against you doesn't mean they won't look for more, or that they will or won't use what they've already found in the polygraph.

The best advice I can give is be honest.  Not simply for the polygraph, but because the truth as told by you is much better than the truth as covered by you and then discovered by them.  Hope that helps.

I've told young people many times that their youth may come back to haunt them later.   Do they listen?  Well, did I listen back then?  One screw-up can really hurt you later, but it'll hurt you more if you hide it and then it's discovered by people you've lied to, either on your job application or in a polygraph.
  
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Countermeasures for Life/CI with no control?

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