Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Failed a CVSA a few  times (Read 12500 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box er235352345tarq23r41234
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 10
Location: Missouri
Joined: Dec 25th, 2004
Gender: Male
Failed a CVSA a few  times
Dec 26th, 2004 at 8:21am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
its a long story a sad story. i worked for a county as a jailer at night. there was some monies (120.00) stolen from a suspect i had booked in.
i was told that if i took the CVSA it would clear my name.
it just happens that that day, i lost my day job that payed very well. i told them that i never been so stressed in my life, as i was at that point.
don't worry, i was told just do the test and you will be cleared.
i went down to take the test. i had to do a trial test, then the real thing. no go....so i had to take it again.no go again.
at this point i was really freaked out. so they gave me the option of taking the test the next day.
i did a "trial" test that was fine...then the real test...no go.
the tester told me that "the test was inconclusive"
so i was forced to resign from the department. 
that was in March 2004, then in October 2004 it turns out they found the person who stole the money! she made off with like 15,000.00
i have no faith in these things and the more i read about them...i doubt them even more.
  

Anyway, I keep picturing these little kids playing some game in this big field or rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box TN_Cop
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Joined: Dec 21st, 2004
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #1 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 8:17pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
1.  You cant lose your job because of the failure of a CVSA test, seek a lawyer.

2.  There is no inconclusive tests concerning the CVSA, they are either deceptive or non deceptive.  Seek a lawyer.

3.  The CVSA tests are only as good as the operator and its only a tool to assist in the interview of subjects.

4.  Before George W. Maschke our especially senior user has the chance to say it I will, CVSA is not capable of lie detection.  It, as so named, is a voice stress analyzer which is just another tool for the interviewers.

Sorry about your luck
TN Cop
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box er235352345tarq23r41234
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 10
Location: Missouri
Joined: Dec 25th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #2 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 9:27pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
hmm thanks for the info...
its water under the bridge now...
the sheriff wrote me a great letter of reference.
  

Anyway, I keep picturing these little kids playing some game in this big field or rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #3 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 9:39pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
county26,

It is to be hoped that the sheriff has also learned how stupid it is to rely on the results of a CVSA "test." He might just as well have consulted a Magic 8-Ball.

TN Cop,

Don't you see the contradiction between your statement that CVSA results are either "deceptive" or "non-deceptive" and your admission that CVSA is not capable of lie detection?

???
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box er235352345tarq23r41234
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 10
Location: Missouri
Joined: Dec 25th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #4 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 9:46pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
i could of pushed it i guess....however like i said i was never so stressed as i was....in my entire life...i lost one dream job then lost my other dream job...working for the county....yea it was just as a jailer...but i loved my job...
now the whole county knows the truth...
they were audited by the state....
  

Anyway, I keep picturing these little kids playing some game in this big field or rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #5 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 9:57pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
county26,

I'm glad you were able to obtain a favorable letter of reference from the sheriff, and wish you all the best in finding  the job of your choice. Under the circumstances, shouldn't you be eligible for re-hire by the county?
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box er235352345tarq23r41234
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 10
Location: Missouri
Joined: Dec 25th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #6 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 10:03pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
yes they probably would rehire me, however i had moved 300 miles to get the job with the county and when stuff hit the fan i moved back to my original place.
i don't feel like relocating again. i am currently trying to acquire a position with the local county.
  

Anyway, I keep picturing these little kids playing some game in this big field or rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #7 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 10:09pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I'm sorry that unfounded suspicion based on an invalid test has had such a disruptive impact on your life. I hope your local county doesn't require one to pass a "lie detector" test (whether CVSA or the polygraph) as a condition of employment. If it does, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for tips on how to pass. Although this e-book does not directly address CVSA, the "behavioral countermeasures" presented in Chapter 4 will be helpful in any interview/interrogation.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box er235352345tarq23r41234
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 10
Location: Missouri
Joined: Dec 25th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #8 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 10:12pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
up untill now i never had anything to hide.
however i will never take one again, either the polly or cvsa.
i will get the book, to read....just for my info...
thanks for the post...i wish i would of found this site along time ago...
  

Anyway, I keep picturing these little kids playing some game in this big field or rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #9 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 10:26pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Unfortunately, it seems that governmental reliance on lie detectors is growing, rather than shrinking, despite the overwhelmingly negative recent findings of the National Academy of Sciences in its report, The Polygraph and Lie Detection, which also addresses voice stress analyzers. Depending on where you live, you might have little choice about whether or not to submit to a lie detector test if you want to work in public safety.

I hope you might consider helping us to spread the word about lie detectors to others before they become victims. For example, if you participate in any other message boards, please consider mentioning the information available here (it's all free) if the subject of lie detectors comes up. For additional ideas, see our Get Involved page.

If we are to put an end to misplaced governmental reliance on lie detectors, we need to make those who are subject to it aware that it's a fraud.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box er235352345tarq23r41234
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 10
Location: Missouri
Joined: Dec 25th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #10 - Dec 26th, 2004 at 11:23pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
sound  like a good idea. i will put a link on my website for this board. i am active in alot of stuff on the net...and i get alot of hits.
if this county here requires a test i will simply quit.
the whole thing makes me sick.
  

Anyway, I keep picturing these little kids playing some game in this big field or rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box G Scalabr
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 358
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #11 - Dec 27th, 2004 at 6:19am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
County26: Sounds like a good idea. I will put a link on my website for this board.


This would be much appreciated. External links (the number of Websites that find a particular site worthy of a link) influence Google rankings tremendously. If you could link the home page (instead of the message board), it would go a long way toward helping us keep our #1 ranking.

Thanks again, and all the best in the New Year.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box TN_Cop
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Joined: Dec 21st, 2004
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #12 - Dec 27th, 2004 at 8:36am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George,

Thats just the way the tests are classified, "deceptive" or "non-deceptive".  The point being there isnt a classification for a CVSA test as being "inconclusive"  Its not a lie detector and you can show deceptive with the CVSA without lying.  Hell you can classify the tests "stressed" or "non-stressed" and its still a useful tool and does the same thing.

It amazes me how much hatred you have towards these machines and their uses.  Sure some people get screwed because some of the examiners dont know how to affectivly use the tools but I would bet more times than not these machines are used to illicit confessions and admissions from very undersirable people who have commited the crime or have done whatever they are accused of doing.

I have one more questions, are you certified as an examiner in either the CVSA or the polygraph?  Did you or someone you love fail one of these tests and it change your life?  I am curious to know where your hatred comes from.

Thanks,
TN Cop
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #13 - Dec 27th, 2004 at 11:16am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
TN Cop,

You write among other things:
Quote:
Sure some people get screwed because some of the examiners dont know how to affectivly [sic] use the tools...


People get screwed not just because of examiner incompetence, but because the exam itself is without validity. The "National Institute of Truth Verification" (NITV) and the community of CVSA operators are complicit in promoting public belief in a lie (the notion that CVSA can detect deception). How many CVSA devices would NITV be able to sell to government agencies at $10,000-a-pop if they were to honestly explain that CVSA can neither detect deception nor "verify the truth" and in fact has no scientific basis at all? How many city councils would approve the expenditure of taxpayer dollars for CVSA devices and training if the public safety officers who sought them were to truthfully explain that the device is no more accurate than a coin toss?

I am neither a CVSA nor a polygraph operator. I'm just a concerned citizen. My concerns about lie detection (and discovery that it is a fraud) began when I was falsely accused of deception during an FBI pre-employment polygraph examination. For an account of that experience, see my statement, "Too Hot of a Potato: A Citizen-Soldier's Encounter with the Polygraph."
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box er235352345tarq23r41234
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 10
Location: Missouri
Joined: Dec 25th, 2004
Gender: Male
Re: Failed a CVSA a few  times
Reply #14 - Dec 27th, 2004 at 3:19pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
TN_Cop wrote on Dec 26th, 2004 at 8:17pm:
1.  You cant lose your job because of the failure of a CVSA test, seek a lawyer.

2.  There is no inconclusive tests concerning the CVSA, they are either deceptive or non deceptive.  Seek a lawyer.

3.  The CVSA tests are only as good as the operator and its only a tool to assist in the interview of subjects.

4.  Before George W. Maschke our especially senior user has the chance to say it I will, CVSA is not capable of lie detection.  It, as so named, is a voice stress analyzer which is just another tool for the interviewers.

Sorry about your luck
TN Cop

i was just thinking about this....
There is no inconclusive tests concerning the CVSA, they are either deceptive or non deceptive.
so that either means that the test was non deceptive (cause they found out who took the money).
and or they were trying to get a negative result.
cause i looked guilty as hell.
now i am getting really pissed. i am half temped to publish where and when i took the test. maybe i am not the only one who got screwed over by this guy.
He told me that he has been a tester for many years...
he told me how many test he has given...i think it was like 4,000...but dont quote that...it was alot....
i am wondering if the tester is just a dork.
i hope that the gal that stole all that money from the jail gets hers....
  

Anyway, I keep picturing these little kids playing some game in this big field or rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Failed a CVSA a few  times

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X