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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #45 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 12:09am
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This is the first time i'm posting a message on this site.

I have been on probation for over 3 years now and have passed all my polygraph.  Recently, I took a polygraph and the results were "inconclusive" therefore i had to retake the test again and the result from the second polygraphs was inconclusive, so i was offered a third polygraph.  Unfortunately all three polygraph were inconclusive.  Now my probation officer thinks i'm deceptive and hiding stuff from both her and the polygraph examiner.  She has referred the case to her supervisor and now i dont know what actions will be taken against me.   

I want to ask the experts in here if they can help me with these three questions.  I have not comminted any new crimes nor have i violated any of my terms and conditions.

1.  Can a "deceptive" or "inconclusive" polygraph result alone constitute a violation of supervision?
2.  Can a Polygraph examination results and conclusions determine if a violation of supervision has occured and on that basis, can the probation officer request for revocation?
3.  Can a Polygraph examinations results be relied on as evidence of truth or deception if no new crime is reported, and be asserted as proof of any matter of inquiry by the examination in any proceeding. This includes a revocation proceeding or a court review?

Any help is appreciated.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #46 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 1:30am
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dallascounty wrote on Jan 23rd, 2007 at 12:09am:
1.  Can a "deceptive" or "inconclusive" polygraph result alone constitute a violation of supervision?


It depends on your written conditions of probation but most states that use the polygraph as part of the containment method stress that it should not be the sole determiner of violation...

dallascounty wrote on Jan 23rd, 2007 at 12:09am:
2.  Can a Polygraph examination results and conclusions determine if a violation of supervision has occured and on that basis, can the probation officer request for revocation?


Yes, since you're on supervision, POs have a wide latitude in determining who they report for violations. But if you're on probation rather than parole, the sanctions are determined by the court rather than a parole board so you should have an attorney represent you at any hearing.

dallascounty wrote on Jan 23rd, 2007 at 12:09am:
3.  Can a Polygraph examinations results be relied on as evidence of truth or deception if no new crime is reported, and be asserted as proof of any matter of inquiry by the examination in any proceeding. This includes a revocation proceeding or a court review?


No, but that doesn't mean that a prosecutor or probation officer won't try. That's why you need a good attorney...
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #47 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 1:32am
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dallascounty

How for is it to the end of your probation? The reason I ask is, if it is getting close to the end there could be money reasons for the inconclusives or a way to try to extend your probation. More polygraphs. It doesn't seem reasonable, to me, that you pass three years of polys then all of a sudden you get three inconclusives in a row. Three in a row throws up a big red flag to me. You would probably save money by getting a lawyer to look into your situation. Have him and your PO read this site.

I wouldn't think they could revoke your probation on an inconclusive. However, I believe Texas laws allows deception as a violation. Check with a lawyer to make sure.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #48 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 1:52am
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I was sentenced to 5 years deferred of which I have completed 3 years.  The inconclusive results are from two different polygraph examiners but from the same firm.  Moresoever, the examiner told me he is not interested in re-examining me, because it is not ethical for him to examine when he cannot produce a result.  I have already consulted an attorney, where he recommends to hire an independent Examiner and use his results.  Now this is from my end, I don’t know if the probation will allow that or not?

You mentioned, “Texas laws allows deception as a violation.” How accurate is that statement, because I would like to know where you read that and if possible post the link here.

Does anyone know, how probation officer deals with 3 inconclusive?
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #49 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 6:57am
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dallascounty

I didn't read that law anywhere. I got my notion from from the media. That's why I said check with a lawyer. I am not sure. However, I don't think any state can revoke your probation for an inconclusive. Or for 3. An inconclusive means no results. It doesn't convict you.

Ask your PO about taking a private polygraph.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #50 - Jan 24th, 2007 at 3:45am
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Gentlemen Guess what?

My probation officer has recommended to revoke me from probation because i have had 3 inconclusive polygraphs in less than a month. 

This is what she states, "Inconclusive polygraph are considered deceptive"  The only reason why you have inconclusive is because you are holding something back and you need to come out clean.

Well guys, guess what.  I have completed 3 years in probation, No Crime Reported, No Violation and now my whole life is jeopardized.  I may be going to jail for doing everything right.  The only way i can proove my innocence is by polygraph.

God Bless America.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #51 - Jan 24th, 2007 at 7:12am
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If you would have been truthful, your results wouldn't have been inconclusive.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #52 - Jan 24th, 2007 at 7:59am
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Sir with all do respect.  How do you know if i was not telling the truth.  I have nothing to hide.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #53 - Jan 24th, 2007 at 9:02am
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dallascounty wrote on Jan 24th, 2007 at 3:45am:
Gentlemen Guess what?

My probation officer has recommended to revoke me from probation because i have had 3 inconclusive polygraphs in less than a month.  

This is what she states, "Inconclusive polygraph are considered deceptive"  The only reason why you have inconclusive is because you are holding something back and you need to come out clean.

Well guys, guess what.  I have completed 3 years in probation, No Crime Reported, No Violation and now my whole life is jeopardized.  I may be going to jail for doing everything right.  The only way i can proove my innocence is by polygraph.

God Bless America.


If you are on probation, a judge is deciding your fate, get a good attorney who can point out that the only thing you're being accused of is being inconclusive on a pseudoscientific test...

You are under what is called the "containment model." Kim English, who came up with this model, wrote in her NIJ brief (found at http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/sexoff.txt) that "polygraph data should be used in conjunction with other information when making decisions about case management of sex offenders."

I take this to mean that unless there is other corroborating evidence, sole reliance on the polygraph is unwise. However, as I argued with Kim on many occasions, probation officers will not do that because they do not have the necessary background in which to evaluate polygraph results and will fall prey to the popular belief that it is infallible. But like many people, Kim also doesn't believe that the polygraph is pseudoscience, irrespective of what the National Academy of Science says...

In addition, regardless of who you go to for another polygraph, you are now sensitized to the questions in which you've been deemed inconclusive. No matter how experienced (LBCB?), a new examiner cannot overcome that...

So hence, you're SOL without a good lawyer...
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #54 - Mar 14th, 2007 at 6:22pm
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digithead wrote on Jan 24th, 2007 at 9:02am:
In addition, regardless of who you go to for another polygraph, you are now sensitized to the questions in which you've been deemed inconclusive. No matter how experienced (LBCB?), a new examiner cannot overcome that...

So hence, you're SOL without a good lawyer...


HELLO and welcome to MY world - the world of repeated inconclusive results.  Wow, this scenario is SOOO familiar to me.

This is how it all starts and it only goes down hill from here.  I've seen many probationers in this situation get their lives turned upside-down, or worse, for inconclusive results. 

I made several posts addressing sensitization to polygraph tests.  You should read them dallascounty. 

I resorted to using countermeasures (out of desperation) and have been successful ever since.


  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #55 - Mar 15th, 2007 at 7:15am
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Same here. Polygraphy is total bullshit. Countermeasures got me through the last two maintenance exams, which were the only two (just before the end of probation) that really mattered after seven years. I saw lots of people get an "offer" to be extended for two years if they had failed an exam just before end of supervision. Right, give me 16 hours of community service for being inconclusive. Let's see, that motivated me to do what? Figure out why I was getting screwed for telling the truth and what I needed to do to protect myself.

Pick a control question, make yourself have a feeling like you're on fire, or the feeling like you're falling or tripping (slight adrenalin rush), and you're good to go. It's all internal and those dufus polygraphers will never know the difference.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #56 - Mar 17th, 2007 at 1:26am
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Regarding the countermeasure advice----Christ that's the worst advice I've ever heard!
The person who claims that they were violated for inconclusive tests is full of shit. He/she had already banked enough minor violations to score a violation on their local versian of the violation matrix. The team gave the guy a shot---he couldn't pass 3 polys (what are the odds?) and they bumped him. He simply isn't telling this forum the truth. Late or missing therapy, lackluster efforts to find employment, poor or contaminating group therapy performance (denial of instant offense)---there is something there that got you in the cross hairs. Enough already of your martyrdom.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #57 - Mar 19th, 2007 at 5:53am
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Polygraphy is a sham, the "test" can be beaten by several means/techniques, and until you've faced having your freedom threatened by the results of what some quack examiner says, anyone who thinks that simply telling the truth (and the polygraph will set you free) is delusional.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #58 - Mar 22nd, 2007 at 1:34am
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palerider,

Join the ranks of the Deluded, I've been branded with the same message.  And posting here is somewhat meaningless unless you agree with the owners and operators of "ANTIPOLYGRAPH"
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #59 - Mar 22nd, 2007 at 3:12am
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Quote:
palerider,

Join the ranks of the Deluded, I've been branded with the same message.  And posting here is somewhat meaningless unless you agree with the owners and operators of "ANTIPOLYGRAPH"

I would just like to point out that none of the pro-polygraph posts on this board are ever edited or deleted by the moderators of this board. 

On the other hand, just try to post an antipolygraph sentiment on the message board at PolygraphPlace.com.  The people over there who are nominally "Dedicated to Truth" won't permit any sort of debate.

On George's message board anyone can post whatever opinions they like.  Plenty of people speak out in favor of the polygraph here.

It is rather ironic that a pro-polygraph person posts on this board that it is meaningless to post here unless you agree with the board's anti-polygraph philosophies.  It would truly be meaningless if any pro-polygraph sentiments were deleted as soon as they were posted, which is precisely what happens to antipolygraph postings on the PolygraphPlace.com board.
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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