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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Dallas Sex offender program (Read 62458 times)
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #15 - Feb 2nd, 2006 at 9:37pm
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You state

"I failed several because I was lying.."

Which doesn't lead one to have any sympathy for your position.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #16 - Feb 3rd, 2006 at 3:26am
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anti-anti wrote on Feb 2nd, 2006 at 7:42pm:
caughtinthe system correctly identifies seveeral items about his nature and abilities.  He is an accomplished liar, has had polygraphs administered by incompetent examiners and believes he is above the law.  That is why I am anti-anti polygraph.  This site tells you how to lie and pass a polygraph.  Great thing for convicted sex offenders, they can continue aberant behaviors and molest your children too, never get caught and then brag on this site about it.  Congradulations to the great persons that designed this method on this site. 


Antianti,
Don't believe everything you read on this board. You should know that low life polygraph examiners with nothing better to do, often post here either to give bad countermeasure advice to examinees or in an attempt to falsely portray the founders of this site in a negative light. 

Somehow, I get the feeling you know exactly what I'm talking about. Wink
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #17 - Mar 6th, 2006 at 7:01am
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If only one could ensure that one would pass a polygraph "test" by simply telling the truth, then this website would not exist...


Since you are "in-tune" with polygraph countermeasures, why don't you step up to the plate and prove it by accepting Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge?


. George,

His challenge was accepted in another sting.

You don't want to take the chance of losing antipolygraph.org if that examiner had beat the so called "doctor".

Bottom line if the examiner were to lose publicly the polygraph world would end. If the examiner beats your guy all we get is bragging rights. No, I don't think so.

If the Dr. blows it then the domain and all its ownership and rights gets transferred to the American Polygraph Association, and you never start another antipolygraph site.

I think that is fair, don't you?

Both sides have something to lose then. Time to put up or shut up. Accept or decline and do it now. Or are you not a gambling man?

According to most of the misinformed and brainwashed on the message board you have a 50 50 % chance of winning.

That always made me laugh 50 / 50

That would mean that 50 % of the people that are saying/whining "I took the polygraph and failed, and was telling the truth" are lying themselves according to those numbers. Which 50 % are you in I wonder.

Anyway, there it is. Oh my, the cards are on the table. What ever will you do? You may just have to put yours on the table now too.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #18 - Mar 6th, 2006 at 4:13pm
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Boston wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 7:01am:
That would mean that 50 % of the people that are saying/whining "I took the polygraph and failed, and was telling the truth" are lying themselves according to those numbers.

I am interested in the methodology you used to arrive at the conclusion that if people on this board believe the polygraph is only 50% accurate that means that 50% of the people who claim to have told the truth and failed must be lying. 

How is one related to the other?

I told the truth and failed on three polygraphs.  Does that mean to you that there is a 50% chance I am lying about that?
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous ętes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #19 - Mar 6th, 2006 at 6:46pm
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Polyscore and Anti Anti:

I share your concerns also.  There are some people who post here who have a legitimate concern and questions about the polygraph but then there are some whose motives I question.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #20 - Mar 6th, 2006 at 6:53pm
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Polyfool:

You're broad brush smearing of all polygraphers is  part of the resaon two way discussions on here are impossible. You're mind is already made up.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #21 - Mar 6th, 2006 at 8:11pm
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Collider:

Is that your best shot?  How shallow.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #22 - Mar 6th, 2006 at 9:18pm
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 4:13pm:
I am interested in the methodology you used to arrive at the conclusion that if people on this board believe the polygraph is only 50% accurate that means that 50% of the people who claim to have told the truth and failed must be lying.  

How is one related to the other?

I told the truth and failed on three polygraphs.  Does that mean to you that there is a 50% chance I am lying about that?



I can go back to many posts where people say that polygraph is like a toss of the coin, 50/50 if you will. This I can back up but don't have to, just look around the posts you'll see it.

As far as you go, I am not accusing you of lying. What I am saying is that there is a good chance based on the "toss of the coin" theory that at least 50 % of the people that are saying that they failed a poly and told the truth are lying on this message board.

The math is rather simple.

I pointed the finger at no one, but the idea that you took issue with it makes me wonder. The odds don't look good on this one.

As for my challenge posted last night. I see that the people affected have posted to others but not my counter challenge. This also speaks volumes. Maybe people are more confident when they have nothing to lose.

Now the pro polygraph side of the fence is counting the days until a response is made. I wonder what it will be? I am willing to bet it will be a cop out, and have all kinds of weak arguments listed as to why they won't take the challenge.

If they did take the challenge I would be shocked if polygraph examiners don't start beating down their doors, and I guess that scares them.

Easy to talk big with nothing to lose. Sounds like something bullies do.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #23 - Mar 6th, 2006 at 11:24pm
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Boston

A couple of questions come to mind.

1. If the polygraph operator wins, would he be required  to expose and prove his method of detecting the countermeasures? Sounds right that he should since he is not supposed to be guessing and is supposed to be making a scientific calculation.

2. Who would you suggest to judge the proceedings and results outside of the two parties? Who would pick the judge? There would certainly have to be this third party to be fair.

It would certainly supprise me if you could get the APA to go for this. Did you poll them before you posted.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #24 - Mar 7th, 2006 at 2:35am
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TwoBlock,

The challange will not be accepted by this or any anti site with the stipulations mentioned.  Regarding who would judge, well no one has to judge anything, if the examiner were able to detect the countermeasures used and articulate what he observes and how it affects the examination, I would be inclined to believe the examiner observed the countermeasures.  The argument will continue regarding the "Challenge" and there will be no takers, for any reason.  Neither side will agree to the oppositions proposal.  That is the reason the challenge was issued in the beginning.  You cannot loose if no one accepts.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #25 - Mar 7th, 2006 at 9:39am
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Boston wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 7:01am:
According to most of the misinformed and brainwashed on the message board you have a 50 50 % chance of winning.


Misinformed and brainwashed? -- Well that's still nicer than a lot of the things polygraphers have said to me.  Or am I not among those who you consider misinformed and brainwashed?

Boston wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 7:01am:
That always made me laugh 50 / 50


I don't buy the 50/50 stuff either.  How can you put a number on something like the polygraph's accuracy?  Every test that I take is conducted in a unique manner, which presumably means my odds of passing changes each time.  Based on what I'm told during my tests, I get a sense that most polygraphers don't trust the way most other polygraphers conduct their exams.

Boston wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 7:01am:
That would mean that 50 % of the people that are saying/whining "I took the polygraph and failed, and was telling the truth" are lying themselves according to those numbers. Which 50 % are you in I wonder.


Boston wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 9:18pm:
What I am saying is that there is a good chance based on the "toss of the coin" theory that at least 50 % of the people that are saying that they failed a poly and told the truth are lying on this message board.

The math is rather simple.


The math is rather simple, but in order to get to 50% of the people on this board being liars you have to make some additional assumptions.  For example, you could make the following two assumptions:

Half the examiness are lying.

People who failed the test while lying are just as likely to post "that they failed a poly and told the truth" as those who failed the test while telling the truth.

However, if you make the following assumptions:

20% of the examiness are lying.

People who failed the test while lying are half as likely to post "that they failed a poly and told the truth" as those who failed the test while telling the truth.

Then, the number drops to 11% of the people who are lying.

Also, interesting to not that you wrote "at least 50%" rather than 50%, nice spinning.

Oh, and how bout telling us what percentage of people who passed their polygraph exams and never post on this site were completely truthfull?  And what percentage of polygraphers are truthfull during the test?


Boston wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 9:18pm:
As far as you go, I am not accusing you of lying....   I pointed the finger at no one, but the idea that you took issue with it makes me wonder. The odds don't look good on this one.


Interesting way to not accuse him of lying, and a typical tactic of a polygrapher.  Point out an error in their logic, and they suggest you are a liar.  Reminds me of my second polygraph with agency #3.
« Last Edit: Mar 7th, 2006 at 6:34pm by Onesimus »  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #26 - Mar 7th, 2006 at 9:30pm
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Twoblock wrote on Mar 6th, 2006 at 11:24pm:
Boston

A couple of questions come to mind.

1. If the polygraph operator wins, would he be required  to expose and prove his method of detecting the countermeasures? Sounds right that he should since he is not supposed to be guessing and is supposed to be making a scientific calculation.

2. Who would you suggest to judge the proceedings and results outside of the two parties? Who would pick the judge? There would certainly have to be this third party to be fair.

It would certainly supprise me if you could get the APA to go for this. Did you poll them before you posted.


These are both valid questions.

1, Yes I think that would be fair as long as the same rule applied to the intipolygraph side. I have seen no independent study that showed Reliability and Validity beyond any doubt that countermeasures worked.

On a side note in the interest of being fair, we should also clearly define "scientific calculation". One persons definition for scientific "calculation" may not be the same as another. Hell, I am still trying to figure out "what is "is". Clinton kind of jaded me on defining ambiguous terms.

2, this is a tough one. Needless to say both sides are very distrusting to each other.

I feel the Judge should be a disinterested 3rd party, that would have nothing to lose or gain on either side.

I have an idea! Penn and Teller. My vote goes to Penn and Teller. I believe that if given guidelines agreed by both parties, Penn & Teller would be fair and keep everyone honest.

(Besides I am a BIG fan)

I feel the main reason no one has come forward is because it is a one way "bet" if you will. The anti polygraph side of the fence has something to gain and nothing to lose.

Well, let's change that and see who steps up to the plate. If no one takes the offer then there is no hard and you guys (in general terms) can keep flapping your chops and we can keep rolling our eyes at you. Nothing changes, other then you guys get to say that you upped the ante. On the flip side there will always be a chance that someone will step forward and make the nay sayers worst nightmares come true.

Now we would both have something to lose. I think that is fair.

Willing to bet it will raise eyebrows at the APA.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #27 - Mar 7th, 2006 at 9:38pm
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Onesimus wrote on Mar 7th, 2006 at 9:39am:
Misinformed and brainwashed? -- Well that's still nicer than a lot of the things polygraphers have said to me.  Or am I not among those who you consider misinformed and brainwashed?


I don't buy the 50/50 stuff either.  How can you put a number on something like the polygraph's accuracy?  Every test that I take is conducted in a unique manner, which presumably means my odds of passing changes each time.  Based on what I'm told during my tests, I get a sense that most polygraphers don't trust the way most other polygraphers conduct their exams.



The math is rather simple, but in order to get to 50% of the people on this board being liars you have to make some additional assumptions.  For example, you could make the following two assumptions:

Half the examiness are lying.

People who failed the test while lying are just as likely to post "that they failed a poly and told the truth" as those who failed the test while telling the truth.

However, if you make the following assumptions:

20% of the examiness are lying.

People who failed the test while lying are half as likely to post "that they failed a poly and told the truth" as those who failed the test while telling the truth.

Then, the number drops to 11% of the people who are lying.

Also, interesting to not that you wrote "at least 50%" rather than 50%, nice spinning.

Oh, and how bout telling us what percentage of people who passed their polygraph exams and never post on this site were completely truthfull?  And what percentage of polygraphers are truthfull during the test?



Interesting way to not accuse him of lying, and a typical tactic of a polygrapher.  Point out an error in their logic, and they suggest you are a liar.  Reminds me of my second polygraph with agency #3.



You bitterness is noted.

I didn't come up thith the "50 50" or "toss of the coin" thing.

Funny how when your own words (as a group) are use against you, it causes such a reaction.

I think thuo doest protest too much
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #28 - Mar 7th, 2006 at 9:40pm
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Oh yea!

I still don't see a reply.

What is it 2 maybe 3 days by now? Not a peep.

Very telling.
  
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Re: Dallas Sex offender program
Reply #29 - Mar 9th, 2006 at 11:52am
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Boston wrote on Mar 7th, 2006 at 9:30pm:
2, this is a tough one. Needless to say both sides are very distrusting to each other.

I feel the Judge should be a disinterested 3rd party, that would have nothing to lose or gain on either side.

I have an idea! Penn and Teller. My vote goes to Penn and Teller. I believe that if given guidelines agreed by both parties, Penn & Teller would be fair and keep everyone honest.

(Besides I am a BIG fan)

I feel the main reason no one has come forward is because it is a one way "bet" if you will. The anti polygraph side of the fence has something to gain and nothing to lose.

Well, let's change that and see who steps up to the plate. If no one takes the offer then there is no hard and you guys (in general terms) can keep flapping your chops and we can keep rolling our eyes at you. Nothing changes, other then you guys get to say that you upped the ante. On the flip side there will always be a chance that someone will step forward and make the nay sayers worst nightmares come true.

Now we would both have something to lose. I think that is fair.

Willing to bet it will raise eyebrows at the APA.


Boston,

I, too, am a big fan of Penn & Teller. I propose the following:

1) You and I write a joint letter to Penn & Teller proposing that they devote an episode of their television show Bullshit! to answering the question, "Who's full of shit? Polygraph critics who offer countermeasure strategies on-line or polygraph operators who say they can detect countermeasures?"

2) A test involving a statistically significant sampling of examinees will be set up. Some will employ countermeasures, some won't. Some will tell the truth, others won't. I will provide the countermeasure training.

3) If the polygraph examiner (you) succeeds in detecting countermeasures (detection = correct identification at better-than-chance levels of accuracy), AntiPolygraph.org will withdraw Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (the chapter on countermeasures) and advise all polygraph examinees not to employ countermeasures.

4) If, on the other hand, you fail to detect the countermeasures (as I am confident will be the case), you can still keep your polygraph license. It is of no value to AntiPolygraph.org. Your embarrassment and humiliation on national television will be reward enough. Grin

What say you?
  

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