Sluggo, your post is by no means invalid, however it really doesn't counter any of the ideas posted.  No one ever said that we shouldn't abide by the law.  The discussion was if the law determined integrity.  Dimas said that our ethical standards are based on the legal system.  It is obvious that if the law derived from our individual beliefs, America wouldn't be what it is today.  However, you don't let a governing body determine what is right and wrong.  Laws are created to keep our country in civil order, but it is simply impossible for all of our laws to determine our integrity.  Your integrity comes from the way you were brought up, such as the values instilled by your parents.  Another thing that determines our intergrity is our society, and the standards that it sets.  It is not illegal to kill animals or go up to a random person that is homosexual and call them a f*g**t.  However, to many people that would be considered unethical.  So, you may determine your own integrity, and if it's based off of our governing body, that is fine.  Let Bush control what you do for all I care.  It is impossible to say that everyone's integrity comes from the laws that are imposed, and in my opinion, it's kind of absurd.  Do you think our governing body, for example a group of congressman who create laws, base their integrity off the laws they create?  No, I guarantee they break certain laws and still consider themselves ethical people.  What if congressman decided they wanted to smoke pot one day, and legalized marijuana.  Would you then think its ethical to smoke pot?  Or instead not unethical to smoke pot?  It seems like you are a follower to me, try to make some decisions for yourself one time and see how that works out for you.

To answer your question, sluggo, laws aren't my basis for determing integrity.  That is why I can break laws, and still feel ethical.  For example, when driving in a 35 mph zone, it would be illegal to exceed that speed.  While driving 40 mph in a 35 mph zone, I still feel morally correct.  This is why I have no trouble smoking weed, and continuing to feel ethical.  By agreeing with dimas, like you said you did, you are saying that your personal definition of integrity for a certain action is irrelevant.  This is because dimas said that law determines integrity, and not because you feel its unethical.  It is impossible to be completely ethical while following these "rules" if you will, because you can't say that you dont speed or havn't sped in your life time.  For the most part sluggo, I am a follower of the law and I'm sure you are too.  However, no one is perfect, and people break laws.  In my last post I explained that everyone has their own definition of integrity.  Dimas' idea of integrity is following the law, and so is yours I guess.  However, my argument is that this idea is extremely absurd, and pretty much impossible to follow as I explained my reasoning why earlier on this post.  Not only did dimas say that this was his idea of integrity, but he also said that everyones should be.  And you seem to agree with him.  I do promote drug use, you are right, and I don't feel unethical in doing so.  Im not a druggie, everyone goes through their own phase.  Does this make them unethical simply because there is a law outlawing marijuana?  Statistics report high percentages of drug usage among teenagers but i still dont see these people as unethical.  why? because the people who make laws are people like you and me, like i've already mentioned.  By saying that I feel unethical if i break a law, whether I think its just or not, is the same as saying that I let congressman determine my integrity.  You even said:  and it doesn't so much matter what I think is ethical or unethical, that's found in oneself.........exactly, that is found in oneself.  If you use the law to determine your integrity, you aren't following your own beliefs.  So I guess I'm trying to say that everyone SHOULD abide by the law, and if you decide to break the law you shouldn't necessarily feel unethical because our laws are not perfect just like every other country.

yes you are correct in saying that i have veered off topic a bit.   Polygraph tests don't really concern me because I am not in a position that requires one.  I am more interested in the whole integrity issues and the legalization of marijuana.  However, say ronnie did lie on the test.  I will agree with you that he is unethical in that aciton.  This doesn't mean he is an  unethical person in and of himself because everyone has made immoral decisions in their lifetime.  I understand why he would lie to get the job though.  I would too.  Sometimes life is a game and you have to play your cards right.  About getting the job for the DoD, it may seem unfair for a pot smoker to take the place of a person who might have never done anything bad in their lifetime.  However, what if ronnie is a much more qualified person that happens to have a side habbit of smoking weed?  and he doesn't get the job for that reason...and say another person comes along who hasn't smoked weed but aren't very intelligent?  Is that fair?  You can't call ronnie a liar either because if he told the truth there is no chance of getting the job.  He lies in hope to dupe the system and get the job, not because he is the type of person that tends to lie necessarily.  At least in my opinion, things you do in your free time away from the work place shouldn't concern your job, unless you are some mass murderer or something to that extreme.  If those habits don't affect the company in any way, and ronnie can still perfrom his job to the best of his ability, why not let him work for a DoD?

I am glad that you are done with this discussion.  Your thoughts are unwanted in this forum because you turn a series of intellectual arguments into disparaging comments.  If you wish to call me an idiot that is fine.  However, comments about me getting "high" and how it is responsible for my lack of intelligence is just completely  unnecessary.  This does not compensate for the ideas that you cannot come up with because you are just another internet user to me and I could really care less about any insults you have.  So I dont write paragraphs, what is this, a crappity smacking essay?  If you can call me an idiot for not knowing what a paragraph is, I could do the same and call you an idiot for not being able to read without spaces.  See, I wouldn't do that though because its a waste of crappity smacking time and its just something you would say if you can't think of anything else.  If you think I didn't make a reference to a single idea, why don't you go read my big PARAGRAPH that I wrote.  It contains plenty of ideas that are more intelligent than yours.  Yes, we as citizens do have the power to choose candidates to represent us.  Specifically, you have the power to send one vote for each type of representation.  Say that you voted for people that didn't happen to get elected.  In other words, the people that represented you had ideas that weren't parallel to yours.  Would you still consider yourself a person with integrity by following these laws?  That may be different than what you had planned on when the people you voted for weren't elected?  What if there was a new law, that everyone could smoke pot.  I could get high, you could get high, we could all get high and no crime would be commited.  Would you still consider youself a person with good morals?  This is exactly why people who follow the law aren't necessarily moral.  You said, if alcohol was deemed illegal tomorrow, you would stop using it because its illegal.  And for you, that is called integrity.  In other words, you are using the law to determine your integrity.  You say that I cannot interpret what I read, well look at yourself.  When I say that law determines integrity, its the same as saying a person with integrity will follow the law, by your standards that is.  So, my quotes that you posted, you basically said the same thing just in another way.  Don't try to escape what you have already said just because you know you're wrong.  From your experiences, you have apparently learned to hate drugs.  And you call this being moral.  Like I said earlier, if pot was legalized, you would think its ethical to follow the law.  But wait, since you've dealt with drugs first hand, and how it affects children, those two might conflict with your idea on integrity if pot was legalized? uh oh...problem here.  You quote "but to an idiot like you the worst part thing about drugs is a lazy workforce."  First of all, just because I used that as an idea as to why pot shouldn't be legalized, it doesn't mean I think its the worst thing about drugs.  Why don't you stop putting ideas in your head.  Even if I had said that it was the worst part about drugs, so what?  We can all have our own opinions about whatever the crappity smack we want.  You think you are God or something, your opinion is superior to all?  Oh also....please continue to make references to my drug habit....since you seem to know what drugs I do and how often I do them and how im going to become a poor victim.  Seems like someone close to you became a poor victim of drugs, don't use this person as a scenario for everyone.  I will continue to smoke as much as I want and do well in life because I have that kind of will power.  Its people like you who just make me want to smoke blunt after blunt all day long.

I agree with everything you said about the polly....government jobs go through these procedures for a reason and aren't meant for people who are crappity smacking around.  I know that its against the law and most people would consider smoking weed to be wrong.  However, my whole argument was me trying to say that just because you smoke weed doesn't mean you are an immoral person.  You might kill animals or something and to some people that would be considered immoral (not me).....but you really can't determine integrity based off of one habit.  Anyways, people can follow the law but still be immoral in committing a legal action(i.e. killing animals, speeding)....either way ive brought up all my points and people can buy them or throw them out.  This forum is meant for discussion and for people to throw around ideas and help eachother out.  Its fun seeing what other people have to say about certain issues.  A lot of it is opinionated rather than factual.  So...nice ideas on the polly, thanks for presenting them.