Normal Topic Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home (Read 6416 times)
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Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Jun 23rd, 2004 at 8:29am
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The need for interrogations to be video- and/or audio-recorded (whether or not the polygraph is involved) has been a recurring topic on AntiPolygraph.org. On 22 June 2004, USA Today published an article by George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley on this topic. Although he doesn't mention it, two of the false confessions to which he specifically refers -- those of Navy Petty Officer Daniel M. King and of Abdallah Higazy -- involved polygraphs.

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Abu Ghraib images bring lessons closer to home
By Jonathan Turley

The scandal over the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib appears to be subsiding in Washington. In a ritual as old as the republic, scapegoats have been offered up by the administration and accepted by the Congress. For the military, however, the message and true meaning of the scandal could not be more clear: no more pictures.

The federal government, and particularly the military, has long understood the impact of photographs. Pictures represent a dangerous element in a world that remains largely visual. They are hard to spin or deny. Most importantly, such images are instantly credible for a viewer. (Recall the naked Iraqi prisoner on a leash.)

Knowing the dangers of such images, the federal government for decades has rejected calls for videotaping interrogations ? a practice followed by some states. Yet the government often uses videotape to record confessions, but not the interrogations that lead to them. As a result, any accusations of abuse during an interrogation is the word of the suspect against that of a law enforcement officer.

Day after day, lawmakers expressed outrage as the facts of Abu Ghraib came to light. Yet if members of Congress were serious about reform, the problem would not be the pictures from the Iraqi prison, but the absence of pictures in abuse cases within their own districts.

Evidence has emerged that the incidents at Abu Ghraib were carried out at the behest of military intelligence as interrogation techniques. Similar charges of abuse have been made for years in domestic cases, but they are particularly prevalent in the military system, where investigators have been accused of using sleep deprivation, threats and other coercive tactics to secure confessions.

Resistance to change

Despite such charges and ever-present concerns, the military and federal government remain adamantly opposed to mandatory taping. This, even as 238 police departments have policies to tape all interrogations, and four states (and the District of Columbia) require such taping, according to a study by Northwestern University's Center on Wrongful Convictions. Proposals for mandatory taping have been raised in 21 other states.

In a Navy espionage case that I handled as defense counsel, Navy Petty Officer Daniel King was interrogated for days with little sleep or food. Sessions lasted as long as 19 hours. Audiotapes were later discovered in which interrogators could be heard reducing King to a point of exhaustion and fear. What was striking is that the tapes suddenly ended. In a deposition, a Navy interrogator said he was called by officials in Washington and specifically told to stop audiotaping ? preventing further record of the conditions leading up to King's false confession. King was vindicated when a military judge threw out the charges as unsupported and possibly based on coerced confessions.

Confessions by the innocent

King's false confession is only one of many such cases, often involving accusations of abuse. Of the 143 prisoners in the USA who have been exonerated by DNA testing, 20% had confessed falsely to the crimes. In murder cases, the percentage of false confessions might be much higher because of a suspect's desire to avoid the death penalty. A study by Northwestern University Law School found that, of the 42 invalid murder convictions confirmed by DNA testing in Illinois since 1970, 60% were based on false confessions.

Federal prosecutors also have produced their share of false confessions. In a case involving Abdallah Higazy, the Justice Department produced a confession after a long interrogation. Higazy said he owned a ground-to-air radio found in his hotel room next to the World Trade Center after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. A hotel security guard later came forward to admit that it was his radio. But, once again, no recording was made of the interrogation of Higazy that had led to the false confession.

Notably, prosecutors and police officers do not oppose all videotaping. The police are happy to videotape all cars traveling on particular roads and all citizens stopped by cruisers ? including scenes aired on TV shows. However, when mandatory videotaping of interrogations is raised, these same officers become camera-shy.

This refusal to tape interrogations is particularly suspect when police routinely use videotape to record confessions for use at trial. These tapes are often worthy of Cecil DeMille. After working on a suspect until he confesses, police will clean him up and calm him down. They will then have him repeat the confession on videotape so it appears that he is a coldhearted killer matter-of-factly detailing his crime.

For years, Alaska and Minnesota have required the videotaping of all major felony interrogations without undermining law enforcement or imposing prohibitive costs. Groups such as the American Bar Association have called for mandatory taping. Videotaping also makes it more difficult for criminals to make false claims of abuse during an interrogation.

Congress has long been aware of the need for the taping of interrogations, particularly in the military. One thing is certain after Abu Ghraib: If such recording is not made mandatory, the military is likely to put as much effort into preventing future pictures as preventing future abuse.

When President Bush told the Arab world that the pictures at Abu Ghraib would not be tolerated in the United States, he was right. Under our current rules, there would be no pictures at all.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University.
  

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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #1 - Jun 23rd, 2004 at 11:08pm
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The need for interrogations to be video- and/or audio-recorded (whether or not the polygraph is involved) has been a recurring topic on AntiPolygraph.org. .



Yes George, I would love to have a video of your polygraph tests.  It would be very entertaining to see you sweat your fat ass off.  And I bet it would be very interesting to hear all the things you admitted during your interrogation.  It would be impossible for you to continue playing the victim if we could see that.   
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #2 - Jun 24th, 2004 at 4:51am
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Whatever.
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #3 - Jun 24th, 2004 at 4:58am
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Yes George, I would love to have a video of your polygraph tests.  It would be very entertaining to see you sweat your fat ass off.


Personally, I'd rather see other videos, Just finished an episode of Firefly. What's with your obsession with watching George sweat?

-Marty
  

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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #4 - Jun 24th, 2004 at 5:37am
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Yes George, I would love to have a video of your polygraph tests.  It would be very entertaining to see you sweat your fat ass off.  And I bet it would be very interesting to hear all the things you admitted during your interrogation.  It would be impossible for you to continue playing the victim if we could see that.  



First off, I would like to commend George and this site.  The fact that an ignoramus with no point such as ISBS2 is allowed to post his drivel unedited is a testament to the sincerity and honest knowledge that this website attempts to educate people on.  Considering the other websites that are PRO tend to delete anything that goes against their argument or that makes them look bad.

Secondly, before I am slammed by all the PRO people out there I would like to inform you that NO I am not 100% against the polygraph.  Having been an investigator for abuse and neglect at my previous dept.  I recognize the validity in using the polygraph as an interrogation tool to arrive at information/confessions that otherwise would be unobtainable via the regular investigative process.  Especially when dealing with sexual predators. 

There is however, one contention to this and that is that we have to ensure that we do not EVER wrongly accuse the innocent.  Therefore, yes the polygraph has its use, however in the absence of a confession we should never rely on the polygraphers interpretation to label a person innocent or guilty.   

Lastly, George makes an excellent point, video taping confessions is absolutely necessary as a recourse for an innocent man to prove his innocence, or prove that he was indeed coerced into making a confession or that he infact never made a confession at all.

Once again, great website, great info, keep up the good work.
  

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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #5 - Jun 25th, 2004 at 3:43am
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I know that the inappropriate behavior displayed by my second polygraph examiner would have never occured if there was a recorder present.  This is not a cost issue.  It is an issue of ethics.  My second examiner was rude, arrogant, and unprofessional.  A videotape would have quickly validated these allegations.  After I passed my third polygraph, the second "not within acceptable parameters examination" was swept under the table as if it never existed.  No investigation into a poor examination or faulty result, no accountability.  No wonder the FBI is in such a poor state of affairs.

Videotapes are cheap insurance for both the examiner and examinee.  Why not use them?
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #6 - Jun 25th, 2004 at 4:28am
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My second examiner was rude, arrogant, and unprofessional.  



Oh poor baby.... did that mean old polygraph man yell at you and make you poop your panties?  Whaaaaaa......
Now you know why I call you guys crybabies.
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #7 - Jun 25th, 2004 at 7:45am
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Oh poor baby.... did that mean old polygraph man yell at you and make you poop your panties?  Whaaaaaa......
Now you know why I call you guys crybabies.


That the polygraph community includes operators with mentalities like this underscores the need for audio/videotaping of interrogations.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #8 - Jun 26th, 2004 at 2:59am
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The censorship on this site is minimal.  The sharing of knowledge and experience is a common thread.   

I miss "The Breeze" and polygraph proponents that would at least present a reasonable case, even it I disagreed with them.

I smell bs 2 must not have read my posting.  I passed the third polygraph.  I was offered a position.  Just because I was offered a job in the good ole boys network does not justify the means.   

The FBI emblem has fidelity, bravery, and integrity displayed on it.  I believe my second examiner could have used more bravery and integrity than hide behind a machine used in such pre-screening exams not based on any facts or background checks.   

Last time I checked the Supreme Court, they would not allow polygraph results alone to be the sole decider in a court case and the Attorney General was the one saying that the polygraph was not reliable enough.  The FBI is willing to end a career before it even starts just based on one "not within acceptable parameters" result.

Regards.
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #9 - Jul 30th, 2004 at 11:43am
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there were in fact vid recordings of the interrogations at abu ghuraib. 
of course that was after there were facilities to interrogate in.
you can't record an interrogation that is being conducted in a tent when there are mortars falling all around you.
it was something that all the interrogators were relieved to have avaliable finally to protect them against such erroneous claims of abuse by other such "born to lie" detainees.
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #10 - Jul 30th, 2004 at 12:28pm
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no thanks,

Indeed, videotaping not only protects the subject against abuse, but also protects the interrogator against false claims of abuse. As a former 97E (interrogator) and Arabic linguist myself, I can appreciate why any interrogator who is conducting his interrogations in a lawful manner would want them to be videotaped.

Your post here is the first news I've seen that interrogations at Abu Ghuraib were videotaped. What has become of those videotapes? Were they all kept?

Note that even in the field, it is possible to audiotape an interrogation. While not as good as video, an audiorecording still affords some protection to both parties to the interrogation.
  

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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #11 - Aug 3rd, 2004 at 7:30pm
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Recording in an intelligence context may prove to be too cumbersome or impractical, especially with fast moving situations.  The war we are fighting now requires people to move and think quickly on thier feet, not send copies of recordings to higher ups in the chain and wait for things to be decided.  The rats are leaving Pakistan as we speak.
In LE its a different story, we have to be accountable.  I learned in IA school that recordings and transcripts make you a better interviewer, obviously since there is a record you are responsible for.  It has saved me a couple of times when after an interview some officer (who was rightfully disciplined) made allegations of improper treatment.   
Fair chance, I dont know why the FBI would be reluctant to video/audio record especially with the negative reports this site and others are giving thier hiring process.  It has to be a question of volume of tapes, and cost.  For me personally, Im going to record all interviews, because I always want an opportunity to show that things were not done in an abusive way. 

On the job front, I was glad to see that the FBI offered you a position, do I sense correctly that you are still undecided or did you decline?

Im not sure if this recording standard should apply to intelligence operatives for obvious reasons.  And in a practical sense, if we are dealing with killers on a time sensitive basis, we may need to do and say things that would not be welcome on 60 minutes.
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #12 - Aug 3rd, 2004 at 8:23pm
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The_Breeze wrote on Aug 3rd, 2004 at 7:30pm:
...And in a practical sense, if we are dealing with killers on a time sensitive basis, we may need to do and say things that would not be welcome on 60 minutes.


For example?
  
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Re: Abu Ghraib Images Bring Lessons Closer to Home
Reply #13 - Aug 3rd, 2004 at 9:29pm
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The_Breeze wrote on Aug 3rd, 2004 at 7:30pm:
All
Recording in an intelligence context may prove to be too cumbersome or impractical, especially with fast moving situations.  The war we are fighting now requires people to move and think quickly on thier feet, not send copies of recordings to higher ups in the chain and wait for things to be decided.  The rats are leaving Pakistan as we speak.
In LE its a different story, we have to be accountable.  I learned in IA school that recordings and transcripts make you a better interviewer, obviously since there is a record you are responsible for.  It has saved me a couple of times when after an interview some officer (who was rightfully disciplined) made allegations of improper treatment.  
Fair chance, I dont know why the FBI would be reluctant to video/audio record especially with the negative reports this site and others are giving thier hiring process.  It has to be a question of volume of tapes, and cost.  For me personally, Im going to record all interviews, because I always want an opportunity to show that things were not done in an abusive way. 

On the job front, I was glad to see that the FBI offered you a position, do I sense correctly that you are still undecided or did you decline?

Im not sure if this recording standard should apply to intelligence operatives for obvious reasons.  And in a practical sense, if we are dealing with killers on a time sensitive basis, we may need to do and say things that would not be welcome on 60 minutes.

Breeze,

I would think recordings of interrogations would be especially useful in military/intel ops. Arabic translators are in short supply and interrogators vary in efficiency and reliability. Also, events subsequent to the interrogation may generate increased interest in certain lines of questioning. Further, consistency in complex stories is a critical credibility index and recording sessions (for subsequent transcription) would seem especially useful.

LE needs are quite different from military/intel needs I would think. But then, I'm an engineer and what seems logical to me may not at all coincide with practice which is likely more tradition driven.

-Marty
  

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