If anyone knows anything....we could use some help. Back in the middle of March, on a Saturday, our son, who is on house arrest for something stupid he did, had a flat tire on his 2 hours of free time.  He didn't have a spare, and had to walk home.  He parked the car off the highway on a side road, and left it there till the next day when he could take the spare tire and change the flat. Sunday, when he got to the spot, the car wasn't there.  The police said they didn't get any tow reports and didn't know what happened to it, but that a car was found the night before that had been burned beyond recognition and that he could go to the tow yard and see if by chance he could recognise it.  They were closed, and looking thru the fence didn't help any.  The police never bothered to file a stolen car report for him.  When my husband & I got back from a trip that night, and I couldn't get any info from the tow yard the next day, I went down to the police station.  They said they didn't know anything, and that they were busy right then and for me to come back with my son or someone who knew more about the car's details, like the interior color and odometer reading.  I asked them to file a stolen car report because if that wasn't our car that was burned, someone was out riding around in it.  The officer refused and said I needed to come back and bring my son.  Being that my son works, he only gets his 2 hours of free time on Sat. & Sun; so my husband & I both went back.  There they lied to us and said that our son called 911 before 6 a.m. Sunday morning to report the car stolen. Things looked too suspicious,  and we were just going to have to wait & talk to the Detective.  We went home and needless to say, questioned our son.  He knew nothing of the car being stolen til he got there about 12:10p.m. that afternoon, and he never made that call.  When we talked to the Detective, he said he had no record of such a call, and didn't know why we were told that. We weren't allowed to be in the room during the questioning as our son is over 18, but he said that the d. told him he found someone that lived on the street where it was found, and that they saw the car there around 10:30 a.m. &  why would they lie about it. He kept grilling him about the story, changing it at least 3 times, and rewording it, (dindn't it happen like this...),  telling him to come clean or he was going to..... each time was something different, and the last was arrest him.  Each time, our son said you're going to have to... me cause I'm telling you the truth.  Finally at the arrest, when our son said,"You're going to have to arrest me then,"  he changed it to take a polygraph test.  Our son said he would do that.  So, it was left off at scheduling a time to take the test. The d. later called and said that they would schedule it after he gets back from his vacation. ---By then, we checked on polygraph tests, and came up with some very negative reasons to take one.  So we consulted with some legal help.  He said not to take the polygraph test. ---When the officer finally got back to us a couple weeks later, our boy said no he didn't want to take one.  The d. said, "Now you're starting to make me suspicious."  He told the d. that his lawyer told him not to, & for him, to contac him if he wanted to talk any further. ----Now our  insurance company wants our son to come in and swear under oath, sign more papers than originally asked for, when they didn't require it before, and for all of us to sign over to them access to all our financial reports, bank statements, credit bureau reports, phone bills, medical reports, and anything else not listed, but what they deem necessary, to make a judgment on this claim.  Plus, they also said that the detective told them they are going to arrest our son for making a false report unless he takes the polygraph test, and he told our legal represenative that he was going to arrest him.  Not even with a polygraph test. Our representative told us that our son is going to be arrested, it's just a matter of when.
They know our son didn't burn the car. The ankle bracelet verifies he was at home.  (Never thought I would be thankful for that thing.)  They are saying he had someone do it, or knows who did it because a witness says they saw the car there, the key was in the ignition, (he always left a spare key under the carpet because he was constantly losing his keys), and that the car was moved. (I don't know what that has to do with it....?)
Can they arrest you in Del. if you don't take a polygraph test?
Can one witness, your word against theirs, cause you to be arrested? They can't be mistaken?
What about the police lying? - Within a few days of telling the d. he wasn't going to take the polygraph test, the fire marshal comes out to the house.  Says he doesn't have a copy of the 911 call and that he must have left it at home or lost it, (but he had the case history, my son's record, his picture, etc...)  but that the Detective told him about it.  He's the one who said he didn't know anything about it, and yet he is telling the fire marshal about it, and the fire marshal doesn't have his copy with him, but wants to know all about that call.

I know this is long and some won't bother to read it, but, we are so weighed down.  We don't trust the police anymore after this.
If anyone can help us that may know something, it would be so appreciated.
It is to the point that I am not sure if it's my computer or if the police have done something that we can't get onto some sites.  When I tried to print the homepage article on polygraph tests, the computer totally shut down, twice. It has never done this before. Another site wouldn't open the 2nd time, saying the page had been removed.  Still can't get in there.
Thanks for listening.

Tarrying,

Although PolyCop and I might not agree on many things, I think his explanation/assessment about law enforcement perceptions regarding stolen/burned cars is completely correct.  That having been said, under no circumstances would I recommend that your son take a probable lie control question test (PLCQT) polygraph exam (the most common polygraph format used in this country).  The relevant questions that will be asked ("Did you burn that car? Do you know who burned that car? etc.) will be obviously relevant and apparent to your son or anybody else who might hear them.  Whether your son is responsible for the crime(s) involved or not, he may well react to the asking of those questions, simply because he realizes an arrest, perhaps trial, conviction, imprisonment, etc are resting on the outcome of his answers to these questions.  As I have said many times before, your son or someone in this situation can well react to these questions because of fear of the consequences of being found deceptive, completely unrelated to any criminal involvement which might lead to some fear/concern of being caught in a lie(s).  Additionally the “prior experience” bias (well described by PolyCop) which may well affect the prevailing investigative theory(ies) of investigating officers will no doubt be passed on to the polygraph examiner who would conduct your son’s examination.  This kind of second hand bias will most certainly not make it more probable that your son will be found non-deceptive (i.e., pass) on such an exam.

This does not mean that the polygraph is altogether useless in such a matter.  If the police/fire department have adequately investigated the matter, they should have determined a variety of things to include the identity of the accelerant used, the points of origin of the fire within the vehicle, perhaps other things about items left at the scene, etc.  A concealed information polygraph exam will allow for a meaningful exam in which your son can be tested about details of the crime that he could reasonably be expected not to know unless he had some involvement in the planning or execution of the crime.  

PolyCop,

I am pleased to know that we have managed to agree in apparent entirety on the various known aspects of the investigation of and polygraphic examination of the arson matter described in this thread.  I would suggest to you that the underlying elements of that agreement (the presence of and impact of biases stemming from prevailing investigative theories passed on to polygraphers by investigating officers, the confound of the fear of consequences for innocent examinees taking PLCQT's, and the amenability of most (perhaps 90 per cent of all) properly investigated criminal matters to CIT subject matter development) should lead to similar agreement on like aspects of a vast number of criminal and administrative matters being investigated.  I would like to think that such is possible.  Best Regards...

PolyCop,

Again I believe we have a basis for some extended agreement here, but a few points.  You write:

Quote:



I am not suggesting that hunches do not sometimes lead to successful investigative outcomes.  There are no doubt countless examples in which they are both right/helpful and wrong/harmful/counterproductive.  My point is that they should have no role in what should be an independent diagnostic evaluation of the situation, i.e., the polygraph examination.  These hunches can be evaluated in addition to the results of an untainted polygraph examination following that exam and in light of all other evidence, but to confound the exam with the hunch is much more than counterproductive.

You further write:

Quote:


I believe there are several problems with this: (1) in many regards the CQs are not true scientific controls (often differ in time, scope, significance, etc) and cannot be used as such with RQs; (2)  that which you state as "proper foundation and setting" can not be precisely defined nor is there any objective way to determine to what extent it has been accomplished for any given exam for any given examinee on any given day or for that matter to determine whether this goal has been accomplished at all.  For these reasons, I believe this largely leaves every examiner doing that which is right in his own eyes with regard to specifics of the day’s exams regardless of general industry standards for practice.  It (the whole process) is not and cannot by its nature be sufficiently defined and be theoretically justified as to be meaningfully and reliably performed.

You further write:

Quote:
.

Time following the training (not yet done) of investigative personnel, investigative agency executives, attorneys and polygraphers regarding the proper collection, recording, and protection of CIT subject matter will tell the tale.  I see no reason why, once the aforementioned training has been accomplished and in the midst of proper investigation with a given case, that the CIT format should not be an available tool in and for a wide range of casework.  Again regards...

  Is there not someone who can help?!

  Can anyone answer, or give any light on the questions that I asked?
                       
                            Sincerely,
                                 Tarrying

Tarrying, I am sorry to hear about your ordeal and truly hope that your son is indeed innocent.

In your post you state that the detectives/police officers kept changing their stories.  While this is indeed a deceptive practice on their part it is completely legal as they are allowed to do this in order to fish out the truth.  Also the majority of stolen/torched car cases are usually done by the cars original owner, so the police are basically going on their hunch.

I am not sure why the police at the station gave you such a hard time while attempting to file a stolen car report, however, you are always welcome to come speak with a supervisor and file a complaint regarding this issue and you can rest assured that it will indeed be looked into.

Quote:


No, they cannot just come into your home.  They will either need your permission or a warrant.  However, there is often a condition of probation which states that to be placed on probation instead of put in jail or prison one consents to be searched at any time, both their home and person by LE officers.  If the probation agreement does indeed stipulate this, then yes they are free to come in whenever they choose.

My best advice is to consult a good criminal defense attorney and spend the money on it.  I am somewhat apprehensive of both you and your husband spending a lot of money on this because I did work with juvenile offenders for 5 years and found that the majority of the time when they were guilty they continued to lie to their parents, even after being caught and the parents continued to believe them. 

As I said earlier I truly hope he is innocent, but your best bet is to spend the money on a lawyer to ensure that your rights are in no way violated.