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Polygraph Horror Story (Read 10730 times)

Henry Guest	Polygraph Horror Story May 4^th, 2004 at 8:48am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Last week I had one of the worst experiences of my life!! I took a polygraph examination for a law enforcement position in Washington State. The polygraph examiner was an ABSOLUTE COMPLETE JERK and he accused me of lying on several occasions when I was not lying! I failed the exam because I “untruthfully” responded to two questions: ·Have you ever committed any serious crime? My answer: NO ·Did you lie to me today or give any false information that would interfere with the test results? My answer: NO The polygraph examiner was able to interrogate me and made myself feel as if I was an: Arsonist, thief, molester, sexual pervert, lier and a severely disturbed individual. This was the most humiliating experience of my life! First I was asked approximately 60 personal questions that have no relation to law enforcement whatsoever! My most favorite question was “have you ever masturbated outdoors?” I had to describe many aspects of my life that are absolutely no ones business and have no relation whatsoever toward law enforcement. The polygraph examiner (A former LAPD polygraph examiner) was able to extract confessions from me, terrorize me and make me leave the office feeling as if I needed to seek psychiatric counseling! In short he was able to play with me and get whatever he wanted; there is a chance that I passed the exam but he wanted to extract a confession out of me (I never saw my results)! Furthermore I was forced to disclose information that was used against me (the information was forced from me was completely misguided and taken WAY OUT OF CONTEXT) and could adversely impact my future career aspirations. Information from the polygraph was leaked to my present employer and I am currently under investigation until further notice. I walked into the test believing that all I had to do was tell the truth. I thought that the polygraph examiner would play by the rules and would not decieve me, brainwash me, force confessions out of me, and above all distort absolutely everything I said. DO NOT SUBMIT TO A POST TEST INTERROGATION___NEVER! UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR FUTURE IS IN JEAPORDY!! My only question is, has anyone been through a similar experience and if you have, how did you handle it? Is it any good to demand all documentation relating to my application for employment? I live in Washington State, does anyone know of any specific Washington State laws to demand the release of this information? Thank you very much for reading this message.


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Marty Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 499 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2002	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #1 - May 4^th, 2004 at 9:34am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: The polygraph examiner (A former LAPD polygraph examiner) was able to extract confessions from me, terrorize me and make me leave the office feeling as if I needed to seek psychiatric counseling! In short he was able to play with me and get whatever he wanted Getting (true) confessions is their job. It's the most justifiable use of this pseudo science. Quote: I walked into the test believing that all I had to do was tell the truth. Unless your "confessions" were not truth then you are inconsistent here. Quote: I thought that the polygraph examiner would play by the rules and would not decieve me... Why did you think that? Their job is to get information out of you that would disqualify you. If they lie to get it that is allowed. If you are going into LE and have studied the field you should know this is true when interrogating/interviewing people. You are at this point an unknown quantity. Their job is to get to know you - by hook or crook. -Marty

	Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #2 - May 4^th, 2004 at 9:36am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Henry, I'm sorry to read of your experience. I had a similar one (to the extent that false accusations of deception are concerned). In my case, I was falsely accused of deception regarding matters related to national security. (See my public statement on this website for how I handled it.) It's important to find out how any admissions you made were characterized by your polygrapher. Thus, I think you should definitely seek copies of all records related to your application for employment, including the polygrapher's report. The relevant law in your state seems to be the Washington Public Disclosure Act (RCW 42.17.250 through 42.17.348): http://www.mrsc.org/subjects/legal/prd/prd.aspx See also an overview of this law published on the website of the Washington Coalition for Open Government: http://www.washingtoncog.org/Library/PDA303.pdf Washington state officials seem to have a poor record of compliance with this law, however. You might get better results if you file your request through a lawyer. I would be interested in knowing more about the 60 personal questions you mentioned that have no relation to law enforcement. Apart from the one you mentioned, what other questions were asked?

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #3 - May 4^th, 2004 at 10:04am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Marty wrote on May 4^th, 2004 at 9:34am: Why did you think that? Their job is to get information out of you that would disqualify you. If they lie to get it that is allowed. If you are going into LE and have studied the field you should know this is true when interrogating/interviewing people. You are at this point an unknown quantity. Their job is to get to know you - by hook or crook. -Marty Marty, You seem to be reproaching Henry for having expected honesty from his polygrapher. I don't think that is a fair criticism. The polygraph is represented to the public (including law enforcement applicants) as a science-based test for deception, and not as the interrogatory prop that it is. Like Henry, when I sat for my polygraph examination with the FBI, I also expected to be dealt with honestly. At the time, I was myself a trained and experienced military interrogator. I certainly knew about the use of deception in interrogation. But such deception was used in the interrogation of prisoners and the debriefing of intelligence sources, not on fellow soldiers. I naively believed that the polygraph was just a test for deception. In the past, when I had been interviewed by military background investigators, questioning had always been straightforward. When I reported for my FBI polygraph, I naively expected I would similarly be dealt with in a straightforward manner by a fellow professional. Perhaps I should have known better. But I don't think it is appropriate to reproach a job applicant for having expected to be dealt with honestly by his prospective employer.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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henry422 New User Offline Posts: 2 Joined: May 4^th, 2004	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #4 - May 4^th, 2004 at 10:30am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Marty, I am sorry for not clarifying my earlier post. There was some information in my background that I did not fully disclose but this information was not on my conscious mind at the time that I took the test, it only came later after his interrogations; I did not deliberately lie on the test and made a conscious attempt to be completely truthful. The only real confession that the examiner was able to get from me regarded a crime of “not doing anything,” hence a crime that involved the act of “not acting” and might not even really be a crime. The examiner was able to take what I was saying and completely flip it around as to create insane allegations—At this point of the interrogation I was in a state of absolute shock and disbelief. I am not very far along in the law enforcement process and was applying for a job before actually applying for a job in law enforcement; I just assumed that if you told the truth you had nothing to worry about (big mistake!). I now have very little faith in the polygraph and have learned that it is a horrible obstacle that blocks some of the finest applicants from the law enforcement profession. Mr. Maschke, many of the questions did relate to law enforcement such as questions regarding drug and employment history, however some questions did not, such as: * Have you ever had sexual relations? * Have you ever been fondled? * Have you ever been intoxicated in public? Only approximately 7 questions appeared on the actual polygraph exam itself. Thank you very much for providing me with your help; I do not know how I would be able to find the appropriate law without your help! I will immediately begin to handle this matter and I will keep you updated on my progress.


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Marty Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 499 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2002	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #5 - May 4^th, 2004 at 6:10pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	henry422 wrote on May 4^th, 2004 at 10:30am: Marty, I am sorry for not clarifying my earlier post. There was some information in my background that I did not fully disclose but this information was not on my conscious mind at the time that I took the test, it only came later after his interrogations; I did not deliberately lie on the test and made a conscious attempt to be completely truthful. The only real confession that the examiner was able to get from me regarded a crime of “not doing anything,” hence a crime that involved the act of “not acting” and might not even really be a crime. The examiner was able to take what I was saying and completely flip it around as to create insane allegations—At this point of the interrogation I was in a state of absolute shock and disbelief. I am not very far along in the law enforcement process and was applying for a job before actually applying for a job in law enforcement; I just assumed that if you told the truth you had nothing to worry about (big mistake!). I now have very little faith in the polygraph and have learned that it is a horrible obstacle that blocks some of the finest applicants from the law enforcement profession. Mr. Maschke, many of the questions did relate to law enforcement such as questions regarding drug and employment history, however some questions did not, such as: * Have you ever had sexual relations? * Have you ever been fondled? * Have you ever been intoxicated in public? Only approximately 7 questions appeared on the actual polygraph exam itself. Thank you very much for providing me with your help; I do not know how I would be able to find the appropriate law without your help! I will immediately begin to handle this matter and I will keep you updated on my progress. Henry, Thanks for the clarification. I must say at this time it isn't at all clear to me that you failed the poly. You may just be exceptionally nervous, and honest, as the examiner was trying to condition you [and get you to lie] on the controls. As for the large number of unrelated sexual questions, these sound very much like pre-poly questions, designed to help select controls. Let's focus on what was actually asked on the poly and when, relative to the poly, the "interrogation" took place. Do be careful not to identify yourself with too much detail though. There is some chance the polygrapher that examined you reads this site. -Marty

	Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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Canadian Crusader Senior User Offline Posts: 80 Joined: Jul 8^th, 2003	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #6 - May 4^th, 2004 at 7:24pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Henry, How is it that you came to find this website? Had you heard of it before your poly or find it after? Wondering.


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henry422 New User Offline Posts: 2 Joined: May 4^th, 2004	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #7 - May 5^th, 2004 at 1:37am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Excellent question Canadian Crusader; I was not aware of this website before taking the polygraph examination. The examiner asked me if I knew anything about the polygraph and then proceeded to ask me if I had viewed any website regarding the polygraph and then asked which websites I had viewed. I had only known about some very basic “information” about the polygraph before I actually took the “test”; in fact I had heard that the polygraph was approximately 85% to 95% accurate and reliable and that if you tell the truth you have nothing to worry about. I later found out that this is absolutely, completely bogus!! The following is the sequence of events for my polygraph exam: 1) Introduction by the polygraph examiner in which he tried to get to know me better and I got to know him better. 2) Completion of a rather lengthy background questionnaire (I had already completed a similar questionnaire during the application process). 3) The examiner next proceeded to describe the polygraph and to show me the results of a person who was judged to be untruthful, he did this after explaining how the polygraph is able to detect “deception” and how we can do nothing to control how our body reacts (the fight of flight response) when we do not tell the truth. 4) The examiner than explained all of the questions that would be asked to me during the exam; he next proceeded to strap me in the chair and leave me alone in the chair for two minutes (before leaving he said that he need to go to the “bathroom” and that I should make a point not to touch anything until he returned). 5) He returned and began the test, administering several basic “control” questions. The official test itself included approximately 7 general questions relating to such matters as my past drug history, employment and military history. He ran a few trials of the test before he stopped the exam, and released the straps to the machine. At this point he informed me that I had failed the polygraph. Interestingly the questions that I admitted that I showed some apprehension towards did not concern the examiner. 6) He next accused me of deception and I was in a state of complete shock and denial. This was the start of the post-test interrogation. The examiner began questioning me regarding my earlier responses and then he began calling me a liar and stating that with his experience he was certain that I was withholding something. When I was telling him the truth he yelled that I was not telling the truth and withholding information. He next told me that I should go sit in the polygraph chair and try and remember what I was withholding (he said this in a very angry, demanding manner), however he later decided against leaving the room as he started trying to twist everything I said into an absurd confession. I was in a state of anger, frustration and rage at this point of the test and I lied to at least two of the questions that he asked of me during this interrogation. Earlier while he was completing the background questionnaire, he stated that if I had any ambiguity regarding a question that it was best to increase the interval involved, for example he asked me how many times I had committed a certain activity. I correctly stated that I had committed this type of activity on three occasions that I could remember, but later under the stress of the post-test interrogation I broke down and screamed that I had committed this activity 20, 25 and later 50 times; this was absolute nonsense, a complete lie on my part! This man was able to brainwash me into believing that I was something that I was not, he was able to twist absolutely everything I said. It is very ironic to me that a polygraph examiner would actually want someone to distort the truth during an interview in order to be completely honest. By being completely honest, I was in fact being completely dishonest! Thank you very much for reading this very long post, I just wanted to describe my experience with the polygraph; if anyone has any more questions please feel free to ask me them.
	« Last Edit: May 11^th, 2004 at 11:22pm by henry422 »

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Polygone New User Offline Stop the poly.The life you save will be your own. Posts: 13 Joined: Apr 29^th, 2004	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #8 - May 5^th, 2004 at 1:57am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	It is really just a guessing game(poly' exam)and a question of time for many innocent people. The real shame of it all is that the polygraph industry feels validated everytime someone has to defend themselves from the poly' exams. In the late 80's when congress made it illegal for polys' for employers, it appeared a posative act, however it really made things worse. If the government would have left it open to all of the U.S. then sooner, not later, all of the American people would have cried out in protest, because it sincerely is an obvious innacurate examination. So that's a shame. Now the rest of America plays craps, you could be next. It also would have been better if my state would have required the test for law enforcement here, as a result, the system here would have found away around it, as my state is notorius for. This would have lead a legal pathway for all other innocent victims of the test. However, the irony is that my state choose not to BECAUSE that was their loophole! To NOT use it in the first place was the most intelligent way to keep that potential financial waster away. But keep your hope up. The poly IS on it's way out. Always keep in mind, the reason the poly' is forbidden in nearly all places is because states and government do not want to deal with the validity issues, the contraversy, the financially legal cost issues, just to name a few. You really ARE supported. The only reason you are having this problem, as well as thousands of others, is only because there exists a legal way for the poly' industry to exist. Not because it's right, or works. This ONE thing keeps them alive and fuels their false belief that they have something. Most polygraphers know the industry is a sham, however because it's still legal it shows a way for persons seeking potential income to get easy schooling and access to a new or newly lucrative lifestyle. After all, it is hard out there to make a decent living, so it can be hard to blame all polygraphers from trying to do just that. Hell, when I discovered the inherent fault in the poly', I checked out the schools and ran thoughts of easy income myself! Sincerely, North.
	« Last Edit: May 5^th, 2004 at 11:59pm by Polygone »

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meangino User Offline Posts: 26 Joined: Dec 5^th, 2003	My Suggestion to North Reply #9 - May 5^th, 2004 at 5:49am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	My recommendation to you, in addition to those from George and others, is that you record everything about the polygraph session you can recall. now, while it's fresh in your mind. Any detail that would help you reconstruct the sequence of events. Months from now much of what happened you'll no longer recall. Good luck and I sugest you join the campaign to eliminate the polygraph once and for all and conscribe it to the dustbin of history.


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Kona Very Senior User Offline Posts: 159 Joined: Sep 23^rd, 2003	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #10 - May 5^th, 2004 at 8:14am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Henry, Your polygraph experience is a textbook example of a successful interrogation by the polygrapher. You were the perfect prey for him because you really didn't have any knowledge about the polygraph process, and you actually believed that the polygraph was 85 to 95% accurate. The rest was all interrogation tactics. Unfortunately, you fell for these tactics when you volunteered information that wasn't even true, just to get him off your back. This was exactly what he wanted you to do; stress you into admitting something... anything...that could be either a contradiction of an earlier statement, or just plain self incriminating. It's really too bad that you lost your cool and made those statements. Don't feel bad though, there have been plenty of other unwitting examinees that have done the exact same thing as you under pressure. You have to learn from this experience, and educate yourself on the process if you want another shot at a different police agency. Don't give up all hope just because of one bad experience. Study up on the entire polygraph process, admit to nothing besides what is listed in your background package, keep your cool, use countermeasures, and you will smoke your next exam. Good luck. Kona


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Canadian Crusader Senior User Offline Posts: 80 Joined: Jul 8^th, 2003	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #11 - May 6^th, 2004 at 1:06am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Was this LE position with a municipal force or federal? If muni you may be able to appeal to the head of recruiting. They video record the entire polygraph examination (most of the time). Maybe you can appeal to the recruiting head to review the tape and make a determination for retesting based on that providing you are telling the truth on this board (no offense). Sounds like you fell victim to a forceful and stressful interrogation and falsified confessions. I fell for the same thing but never researched the poly until years after my deferral. The force I applied to said they only keep the videotapes for 2 years so I had no recourse and they decided to take the written falsified word of the polygrapher. Fight for it now while they still have the video tape. Also take meangino's advice and start documenting the entire proceeds of your test. If they can review what you said and it corraborates witht he tape they might side with you. At the very least you might be able to clear your name and apply elsewhere. If you don't clear your name with that force they will provide your failed poly exam results to every subsoquent force you apply to and you can kiss a LE career good bye. Good luck and keep us posted.


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ibenubee New User Offline Posts: 5 Joined: May 9^th, 2004	Re: Polygraph Horror Story Reply #12 - May 9^th, 2004 at 7:45am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I'm new to the site and not even close to being a polygraph expert, but the one I did have was not like yours at all. I took a polygraph a few years ago for a security position and they didn't ask me about a lot of the things you talked about. Are the personal questions a common practice now? I'd like to know more about what they were. The only one that you really pointed out strongly was about masturbating outdoors. I guess this is also where I first have to question your assertion that these questions have nothing to do with law enforcement but I would need to know more of the questions that you're talking about. I could care less if you have had sexual experiences, etc. that you were asked about, but if you are wanting to be a police office in my town, I don't want you playing games in public. If you are masturbating outdoors, and can't give some sort of an explanation, I would be foolish not to ask who's window you were looking in. I don't want to sound jaded, but a prominent public figure in my city was recently arrested for doing just that. He was a member of the law enforcement community ( deputy corrections warden) and said that he was conducting research (and he has a bridge for sale in Brooklyn). This may also be a sensitive area in Washington state currently. I recently read an article about a police officer who stalked, and eventually raped, a woman that he had first met when he stopped her for a traffic offense. Since you're polygraph was in Washington and occurred after this, maybe they are trying to avoid any future embarassment. It would be interesting to know if that officer took a polygraph when he was hired. If he did, they missed that one. Anyway, back to the original topic. You said that you were asked about 60 questions. How long did this thing take? Mine only lasted about 30 minutes. Would a better job be worth the hassle of subjecting myself to apparent degredation that you report suffering? Also, I had an injury a few years ago that may disqualify me. Should I mention that if I have to take a polygraph?


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