Normal Topic Re: Polygraph Problems (Read 4700 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Canadian Crusader
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Mar 14th, 2004 at 6:55pm
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The polygrapher said you "were holding back info" and to spill the beans which you did?  What did you "spill"?

You say you know about CM's?  You must not have read about them in TLBTLD.  If you did you would have most surely known that the polygrapher was playing you.   You fell for his interrogation hook line and sinker!  Sounds to me like you made some confessions in rather significant areas.  I can only assume that you confessed or made statements in the poly that were contradictory to what you wrote in the "lifestyle/personal disclosure form you most likely filled out with your application.   

Base on what you wrote I think I can safely say you failed.  Start focusing on some other line of work as you will never make it as a PO.
  
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Reply #1 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 7:56pm
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I appreciate your reply, but I wasnt asking if I would be a good Police Officer. You have no idea if I would be a good police officer based on what I have told you, so keep that to yourself. If you think that failing a polygraph shows that you wont be a good PO, then you dont belong on this board. 

The problem with the drugs question was the fact that I couldnt narrow down the exact date of last usage....which Ive only smoked weed TWICE in my entire life. 

In regards to the sex crimes, he brought out the fact that I have looked at porn on the internet, and said that may be something that was stressing me out. He asked if maybe in viewing that material, I may have run across those that look younger than the legal age, and I told him that is impossible not to, but it is not something that I seek out. 

So during my last set of three questions, I had no guilty conscience, and was at ease answering them. Those things that were discussed were not things that I was necessarily holding back on purpose. 



  
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Reply #2 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 8:41pm
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dre2142,

I really don't think Canadian Crusader intended to judge your ability to be a good police officer.  I think the intended meaning is that you failed this polygraph and you may have problems even getting consideration from other departments.  Hence, you might want to consider something other than law enforcement.

I'm going to hold up Canadian Crusader's opinion that 
you most likely did not pass the polygraph examination.  I agree that it seems you fell into the examiner's trap of admitting to something (ANYTHING) during the post-test interrogation.  I think, if you (re)read TLBTLD, you will find that it advises you to make NO admissions during a post-test interrogation.  This is the whole point of the interrogation.  You clearly indicated deception on your charts, your examiner told you that.  Now the job of the examiner is to get you to disclose something that can be used to DQ you rather than having to say you just didn't "pass" your polygraph exam.

No matter what you admitted to, it was something not disclosed BEFORE the data-gathering process which can be seen as you LYING to the examiner.  I'm sure this was not your intention but I can guarantee it was the examiner's intention.  I seriously doubt that he is going to turn these admissions, as insignificant as they might seem, in to a review board as something positive.   

I will admit, however, that it is somewhat strange that, after indicating deception, you were interrogated resulting in a disclosure yet you were then subjected to further data gathering.  Don't know exactly what that means but I still hold that an admission after data gathering only spells doom.

Finally, on an unrelated note, keep in mind that you have posted detailed information about yourself and your examination here in an effort to gain the opinion of others.  Canadian Crusader offered an opinion based on what you posted - it is very wrong of you to dismiss that opinion simply because you don't agree with it.  Further, I suggest you reconsider your outlook in judging whether or not others "don't belong on this board."  You haven't been posting here for too long - its really not smart to piss people off with your third or fourth post.  Anything you post after will just be ignored.  I would also recommend that you read through some of Canadian Crusader's previous posts.  What you will find is quite different from the belief "that failing a polygraph shows that you wont be a good PO."
  
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 8:47pm
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This is the internet, and if someone on the internet doesnt like me, I really dont care. 
I was simply asking a question, and like you said, I have only been posting for a short time, so CanadianCrusader has no right to come to the conclusions that he has based solely on a few pieces of information about me. 

I have been reading this board for months though, and I know how message boards work. If people want to ignore a user that stands up for himself from the get go, so be it. I apologize though for my brashness. I blame it on the stress of the unknown....the stress of me not knowing if I continue on or not. 

In regards to the post-test questions......nothing that I said to him was anything I was holding back on purpose. He asked specific questions that pertained to the questions that I had some trouble on. In all the cases, my replies were not things that I was holding back on purpose. From the very beginning, he stated that unlike many other agencies, they are not SEEKING something that will fail a person. If in fact he was playing his game with me, what are the legalities pertaining to that. 

Ive been in various process's thorughout the last 18 months, so I know what to expect, and what NOT to do. I dont understand why I am having a hard time with the questions, and feel cheated out of these positions for no reason. 
I actually have another polygraph coming up with another agency. Guess I can just learn from all of this.........and re-read some of the stuff on this site.
  
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Reply #4 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 9:28pm
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dre2142,

I understand your frustrations completely.  If you did in fact fail this last polygraph exam, you at least know that it was a false positive (in a sense; I suspect that a failure will be based not on the charts but an admission during the post-test interrogation).  Keep the attitude you have now about the polygraph as, inevitably, there will be posters that intend to ridicule you.  Ignore them.

I do have some concerns with your particular case.  I feel as though you are still convinced that this examiner was working for you and not the agency you applied for:  "From the very beginning, he stated that unlike many other agencies, they are not SEEKING something that will fail a person."  Of course they are, why else would they require a polygraph examination?  What really bothers me is that you stated:

"In regards to the sex crimes, he brought out the fact that I have looked at porn on the internet, and said that may be something that was stressing me out. He asked if maybe in viewing that material, I may have run across those that look younger than the legal age, and I told him that is impossible not to, but it is not something that I seek out. "

In my mind at least, this has the potential to be horribly damaging.  By luring you into his/her trap, the examiner has essentially convinced you to admit that you MAY have looked at child pornography.  Do you not see this?  I realize that you most likely do not seek out child pornography and you were not witholding this information on purpose, but to what end did you see disclosing this information gaining?

This highlights another serious problem with the polygraph.  The question asked dealt with "sex crimes."  Not knowing the question, I believe that question could have been a control question or a relevant question, depending on what and how it was asked.  You're thinking "I look at porn on the Internet."  I assume you are over 18 years old and you are not seeking out child pornography.  So, although morally questionable, how does this fall into the "sex crimes" category?  It does not.  However, your focus on this activity being a sex crime likely caused you to indicate deception on your charts.  So, you admit to looking at porn on the Internet.  The examiner knows this isn't a crime and really can't DQ you.  But, he takes it along to the next step - child pornography.  One of those "do you think, maybe, there's just a chance you might have accidentally without seeking it out still come across it?"  At least in my opinion, an answer of "yes" to a question like that is not going to persuade the examiner to put in a positive recommendation for you.  I feel you sealed your fate with that admission along with any others you made.  I just don't buy this not seeking out reasons for you to fail bit.   

Given that you indicate that you didn't lie on any suitability questions, I really hope you didn't and you passed this exam.  Good luck.
  
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Reply #5 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 10:50pm
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Well, if all that is truly the case, I will have to learn from this experience. If I do fail, I am most definately going to appeal, and request another one within that agency. 

I feel as if I have been tricked, and there are those out there that have no guilt for their wrongdoings, and are currently carrying a badge and a gun. While I am sitting here not moving along in the process. 

I guess all I can do is keep my confidence, and concentrate on other agencies if this one does not work out.
  
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Reply #6 - Apr 27th, 2004 at 5:45pm
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Yes you were tricked.  And yes the polygraphers whole job is to obtain disqualifying admissions from applicants.  They are not there to "help you pass".  If you had been reading this site for as long as you say you have I would think you would have deduced that by now.

The reason I said you might not be cut out for police work is that you stated you read this site for months and the TBTLD yet you apparently still fell for the tricks polygraphers like to use to obtain confessions.  Sorry but to me that sounds like you can't absorb info or are relatively nieve.  Both traits that are IMO not akin to policing.  I fell for the same trick my friend so I am not calling the kettle black here.

Watch your back when appying to other forces.  Their application forms will ask whether you have applied elsewhere and for what reasons you were deferred.  They will contact the original force and obtain their reason, poly results and even opinions from the officers there for your deferral.  If the polygrapher fabricated a falsified confession based on your statements you can rest assured that you are likely not going to get hired elsewhere.

If I were you I would try my best to find out why you got deferred.  If it is the poly (that is providing they tell you the truth in the first place) I would request to have your video reviewed by the head of recruiting.  Clear up you poly DQ or you are shot everywhere else you apply.  It will haunt you and your future applications for ever.  IMHO.
  
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Re: Polygraph Problems
Reply #7 - Apr 28th, 2004 at 5:46am
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Dre,

Concur with the Canadian.  You were played like a fine Steinway piano.

From a polygrapher's favorite quote book :

I'm on your side.

I'm your friend.

The background Investigator is in a separate division; I don't have to tell him anything.
   
I want to help you get through this.

Anything you tell me will be held in strict confidence.

The polygraph doesn't lie.

The polygraph can't be beat.

You need to come clean.

Here, just write down what you did, and we can move on.  It's not a big deal at all.
    
You want the job, don't you?


and the list goes on and on...............

A couple of Golden Rules if you ever find yourself in the interrogation chair again:

1.  Don't volunteer information.
2.  Make sure that what comes out of your mouth, is exactly the same as what is written in your background package.
3.  Never, ever admit to knowing about countermeasures.
4.  Don't be tricked into admitting anything that you didn't do.   
5.  Stick to your guns; don't change any of your stories.
6.  Oh yeah, and did I mention: Don't volunteer information.
 
Remember that these poly examiners are skilled interrogators, not just some dork sitting behind a laptop computer having a casual conversation with you.   
You need to have your gameface on the second you step foot in their office, and never let down your guard for a second.  You are being evaluated and sized up every second you are there.  Don't ever forget this. 

Good luck in the future.  Hopefully, you have learned something from this experience.

Kona
  
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Re: Polygraph Problems

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