George, you may be correct, but isn't that taking a bit of a leap in accusing Ryan of the neo-nazi affiliation that you have?...Marty is correct "88"is in fact a Chinese symbol for good luck....you might be correct in your assessmen of Ryan's background, but goodness, you are doing the same thing of which you accuse us pro-polygraphers!

Actually i have no racist associations personally i needed to add numbers to my email name since himmler was taken.  88 was easy to remember. No nazi No good luck.

That aside,  I've talked to some of my LEO friends about my disclosure issues.  I'm just going to fully disclose since my past afterall is years behind me and sounds foregiveable.  I don't need to have some old skeletons in my closet come out later in my life and haunt my employment.

I wasn't asking you guys to help me lie, I was asking advice on my disclosure form.  I'm sure you've all wondered whether saying you smoked that joint would compromise your chances of getting the job.  I was just wondering whether or not the decision to take that puff when I was a teenager would screw me over for life.

 Anyway I'm about to go drop it off, Monday morning with the truth, so now I guess I will only experience the poly if my past is acceptable.  So if I get a poly then I will be telling the truth.  If I am found deceptive there is going to be hell to pay lol.  I've read on this forum too many truth tellers get labelled deceptive. 

I've come to the decision that i'm going to be myself, admit my faults, if you don't want me then leave me.  I'm making this decision fully aware that I could beat the poly if had chose to lie.  The polygraph had nothing to do with scaring me into full disclosure, it was something I decided was right.

Now I'm going to be right pissed off if the poly thinks i'm being deceptive.

Ryan

Torpedo

Psychiatry students learn how to redirect those concerns and to focus in another direction.

Let me give you this scenario: I am taking a poly for LE. I tell the polygrapher that, in my young days on the farm, I was the ultimate watermellon steeler because of my ability to vault high fenses and heft the biggest watermellon in the field. Other than that, I have not stolen anything. The truth.

The questioning: 

Is your name _______________ ?   Yes
Do you live in _______________ ?   Yes
Other than what you told me, have you ever stolen anything____________                ?     No

Have you ever passed secret information to and agent of a foreign government_____      ?    No
Do you know of anyone who has passed secret information to an agent of a foreign government?  No

I have answered all questions truthfully and the chart readings are the same on all questions. You are actually going to deem me inconclusive? What is your reasoning why I didn't pass? You can't say countermeasures because there isn't a spike anywhere.

This shoots the hell out of you people's statement "tell the truth and you will do o.k."

Ryan wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2003 at 6:14pm:


Then why did an e-mail message I received from you include "heinrich himmler" in the "From:" header?

Wow!!!....so defensive.....in the spirit of the holidays, I find no need to respond to your tirade...chill Kona....I am sure you are a good person...just a little misdirected....as I have said before, good luck to you.  Maybe we can talk more later after you have calmed down a mite and can engage in an intelligent conversation and not one where you are spewing venomous spittle! Have a great holiday Kona and the rest of the Anti Polygraph folks!

Torpedo wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2003 at 11:58pm:


That's wonderful Torpedo........when you can't, or won't answer a valid question that is relevant to this discussion, you call me "defensive," or unable to engage in an intelligent conversation.  Where did you learn that, in the Debate Club at your local Junior College, or from watching Bill Clinton on TV?   

Ok, here I am........very calm, kicking back in the lotus position, in my feng shue correct office, just being mellow, my yin and my yang in balance, listening to Ravi Shankar on the CD, sipping herbal tea, and waiting patiently for an answer to my question:  What do you have to say to the many people here on these message boards that were 100% honest on their polygraph, and were still found to be deceptive?  How could this happen with your incredibly accurate piece of machinery?    

Oh, and BTW......Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanza, Festivus, New Year to you too.   

Cheers,
Kona

 

Torpedo

I did not claim those questions were actually used. That was a made-up scenario. I guess, since these wern't good control question, it just shows how little I know about the polygraph. I strongly believe, however, that if one tells the total truth, then that machine should pass one. If it could actually distinguish between truth and lies then there would be no inconclusive. I believe there is a right  or wrong. No in-between. Some times there may be a fine line between the two but damnit, there should be a definate conclusion. There should be NO second test. No chance to jack up a person for failure. Isn't this where you use psych 101?

Kona, my friend, you really lack a lot of knowledge about polygraph...and that concerns me because aren't you one of the folks who are freely passing information to others about the polygraph, what to do, etc.. I do not mean to be insulting, but you fail to consider the limitless number of variables that exists out there.  Most regretably, from my point of view, is that far too many states have withdrawn their polygraph regulations.  It might come as a surprise to you, but these states that have either repealed their laws, or never enacted them, it is NOT because the procedure doesn't work (despite what you have been told), polygraph licensing is NOT a cash cow to many jurisdictions and it simply costs too much to administer.  I would very much like to see a federal licensing regulation and establishment of federal standards to which all examiners and their schools were required to adhere.  You do not know how troubling it is for legitimate examiners (George won't like that word) to see examiner on some of the TV tabloid shows and those who "perform" in states where there is no regulation.  Yes,even police departments employ examiners where there are no laws and their training may be less than desireable.  I honestly believe that when examiners who lack the requisite skils that all examiners SHOULD possess become known, and there are addressable issues, organizations such as the APA and the AAPP DO take action.  They too are limited to when an examiner is a member, but at the very least correspondence is sent to the offending department so that perhaps proper training can be provided.  You seem like a reasonable person, think about what I have said and perhaps we can talk again. I think you would want your fellow officers to be honest...it is just the right thing to do.  I wish there was something PERFECT to do these jobs of screening,but right now, it would seem that polygraph performs that mission....sometimes we like it, sometimes we (yes, even examiners are digusted at some of the antics of those who profess to do the same work as we do).  If you prefer to engage in a private discusssion, feel free to leave me a message.