Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) drugs and LEO Background Disclosure (Read 21123 times)
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drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Dec 21st, 2003 at 1:34am
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I'm just curious if any of you know whether or not past use of antidepressant medication disqualifies you from becoming a police officer (i notice the disclosure forms ask if you've used antidepressants). 

Also:  regarding the use of illicit drugs.  I've tried cocaine once before and I've read in places this is an automatic disqualification in some jurisdictions.  Since I've tried pot before I was thinking of only saying i did pot a couple times (although its closer to 25 times)

Since I'm going to be lying on the drug question about my experimentation with cocaine, I figured I might as well say I've never tried any types of drugs whatsoever even pot.  (i'll use countermeasures regardless)

Is saying I've never even tried any drug before look too fake?

I realize they cannot tell i've used drugs because honestly it's been years, also I have a degree in toxicology and know the piss/blood/hair tests would not find any traces of drugs since it's been years for me.
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #1 - Dec 21st, 2003 at 3:13am
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Depends Ryan...just what jurisdiction did you plan on applying to....that could determine a lot of how you plan to approach this situation...let's see if we can plan out an manner to best help you and your situation
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #2 - Dec 21st, 2003 at 6:55am
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Ryan,

You shouldn't give out any more personal information on these message boards.  It's not going to be too difficult to track down your identity if you provide a city, or a department where you live, or have applied.  You've already given an email address, told us that you are unemployed, and your major course of study in college.......a major I might add that is probably not very common among police officer recruits. 

There are many here on these boards that would like nothing more than to reveal your identity and get you DQ'ed.  Let's be careful out there.......

Kona
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #3 - Dec 21st, 2003 at 2:28pm
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lol thanks kona, you're a good man
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #4 - Dec 21st, 2003 at 10:47pm
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Oops!....too late...I think we have a pretty good lead on Ryan...not that we are attempting to DQ him, but if his integrity is such that he flagrantly intends to use countermeasures (and appears to brag about it), he probably isn't someone who should wear a badge....gotta admit, I felt some concern for him about the anti-depressant meds...and the pscy boys would ptrobably give hi a pass on that...but as soonas he is caught (and he WILL be caught) using CM's, he will be DQ'd and the word will be spread far and wide.....ond once again, the advice that you folks hand out has "helped" another.....just what is wrong with telling the truth and demonstrating that what you have done is in your past....what is being examined is a person's intention to CONTINUE the behavior he acknowldges....lying about it gets you NOTHING.
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 12:01am
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Torpedo wrote on Dec 21st, 2003 at 10:47pm:
but as soonas he is caught (and he WILL be caught) using CM's, he will be DQ'd and the word will be spread far and wide.....ond once again, the advice that you folks hand out has "helped" another


Torpedo,

Just curious, how do you tell the difference between someone employing countermeasures, and say.....someone that is feeling extreme guilt about the same control question, but is still telling the truth?  How can you tell the difference between someone puckering their asshole, and that same person having a reaction to your voice, and/or stress of the situation?  Come on, you know the answer.......you can't tell for sure.  You're living in a dreamworld if you think you can catch everyone using countermeasures.  The only way you'd know for sure is if they confessed to it.  I'd say your chances of catching a person using countermeasures are about one in two; the same percentage you would have flipping a coin and calling heads everytime.  Please understand, I don't condone lying to an investigator about the relevant questions, but I certainly know first hand why a person would use countermeasures to ensure passing.  See below.

Torpedo wrote on Dec 21st, 2003 at 10:47pm:
just what is wrong with telling the truth and demonstrating that what you have done is in your past....


Absolutely nothing.  The only problem is that there are many people here on these boards that have done exactly that, and were found to be deceptive.  Therein lies the problem.......police departments use the polygraph, and believe that it is the holy grail.  There is no telling how many honest people have been DQ'ed simply by the results of the polygraph.  Maybe George has some stats.  As long as supply exceeds demand with regard to police recruit applicants, a high percentage of polygraph DQs will continue to be deemed acceptable by the police departments that utilize this quackery.   

Personally, I believe that the polygraph examiners I dealt with were skilled interrogators, and really didn't need the voodoo science to get to the truth.  It's a nice intimidation tool to extract the truth or a confession, but I think it should be saved for use on criminals, not job applicants. 

Regards,
Kona
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #6 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:28am
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Torpedo

I have a question for you.

Are you saying that if an examinee told the exact truth on all questions, both control and relavent and the chart is straight lined, that he would pass? Are you saying that polygraphers don't expect lies on controls?

Enlighten me Bud. I am still the seeker of knowledge.
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #7 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:39am
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Kona, perhaps you will understand, then again, perhaps you won't...it matters not to me, suffice it to say that I am every bit as confident that I will be able to detect most, if not all (if you care to gamble) of any countermeasures that you might throw at me.  My experience and attention to the training that has been provided to me and becoming knowledgeable of what countermeasures people can, and will throw at me enable me to take the position that I have and espouse the confidence that I do. I am alert to the possibility that there is a truthful person who might end up taking my polygraph and I work as hard as I am able to ensure that he is treated fairly and that my examinatin is accurate.  You trumpet the successes of those who have beaten the polygraph...I am sure there are some...but you seem to forget the ones who have NOT beaten the polygraph and have told the examiners....in explicit detail.... what they attempted...where they learned it, how they tried to become expert at it...but it just did not work...you just might be surprised at the number of people who fall into this category.  You might be surprised to know that I too would prefer that polygraph was not needed for jobapplicants, but the sad thing is that it IS necessary.  Perhaps you my friend are living in that same dreamworld if you think that everyone who seeks to wear the badge...or is wearing the badge is not inclined to step over the line.  It is a sad but true fact that the many, many trie and dedicated officers of the law are and will continue to be infiltrated by those who want to use their position for some other reason.  Until a better "mousetrap" comes along, I for one am glad that the polygraph is there....for if for no other reason, it does tend to keep honest people just that honest and causes the others to think twice.  It is an valuable "tool" (as you call it)....and it works.
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #8 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:44am
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Twoblock, please review your Psychology 101.  A persons TENDS to focus their concern on that which poses the greatest threat to their well being.  If a person is appropriately socialized and is lying about a relevant issue, he will focus his concern on that issue.  The "flatlines" to which you refer are quite unlikely, but if they were to occur, it would be called an inconclusive result.
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #9 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 5:39am
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Torpedo wrote on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:39am:
suffice it to say that I am every bit as confident that I will be able to detect most, if not all (if you care to gamble) of any countermeasures that you might throw at me.  My experience and attention to the training that has been provided to me and becoming knowledgeable of what countermeasures people can, and will throw at me enable me to take the position that I have and espouse the confidence that I do.


Great.  Confidence is a good thing to have.  I'm equally confident that I can employ countermeasures, and you won't have a clue....other than a 50% chance of guessing.  The only way you'd ever know for sure is if I admitted to using them.  I'm 1-1 with the total honesty approach (no countermeasures), and 1-0 with countermeasures (truth on relevant questions). 


Torpedo wrote on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:39am:
I am alert to the possibility that there is a truthful person who might end up taking my polygraph and I work as hard as I am able to ensure that he is treated fairly and that my examinatin is accurate.


I don't doubt for a second that you approach your job as a professional, and that you treat people fairly.  Unfortunately, the outcome of your polygraph examination isn't always accurate.  What happened to the time I was totally honest (no countermeasures) and was found deceptive? I'm sure my examiner was every bit as professional and knowledgeable as you, but somehow the truth did not prevail.  What do you have to say to all the false positive examinees out there??

Torpedo wrote on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:39am:
You trumpet the successes of those who have beaten the polygraph...I am sure there are some...but you seem to forget the ones who have NOT beaten the polygraph and have told the examiners....in explicit detail.... what they attempted...


You just made my point for me.....the only reason you know for a fact that they used countermeasures is that they ADMITTED IT.  Otherwise, get out your quarter and flip it......same percentage.

Torpedo wrote on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:39am:
Perhaps you my friend are living in that same dreamworld if you think that everyone who seeks to wear the badge...or is wearing the badge is not inclined to step over the line.


Torpedo, my dreamworld comment was directed at your claim that countermeasures are so easily detectable, not the fact that some people are inclined to step over the line. 

Torpedo wrote on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 4:39am:
It is an valuable "tool" (as you call it)....and it works.


Agreed.  It is an invaluable tool for interrogation and intimidation.  Whether it works or not is debatable.  When I told the truth and didn't use countermeasures, it didn't work so well.  With countermeasures and the truth, it worked like a champ!  What a great piece of gear!  Polygraphs for all my friends!

Cheers,
Kona
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #10 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 6:08am
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I assume then that you have secured your job as a LEO....even though you never really came out and said so.....what a great victory for you and what a sad day for all those who you will be charged to protect and serve.....maybe someday you will see the error of your ways...I don't expect you to admit it....perhaps just change your ways and realize that you won a battle....but now you must answer to yourself! Good luck Kona.
  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #11 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 7:05am
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Torpedo wrote on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 6:08am:
I assume then that you have secured your job as a LEO....even though you never really came out and said so.....what a great victory for you and what a sad day for all those who you will be charged to protect and serve...


Torpedo,

Yes, I have job offers from two different law enforcement agencies.  I am currently waiting for the next academy class to start. 

So it's going to be a sad day for those citizens that I will be charged to protect and serve?  Why is that?  Because I told the truth on all my relevant questions, and used countermeasures on control questions?  Oh, you're right.....I am a despicable dirtbag.  I'm not worthy to serve on the force with the likes of you.  What an arrogant horse's ass.  You sit there in your ivory tower of purity and cast judgement down on the lowly masses.  I'll just bet you were the perfect candidate when you applied to the force; never lied, never did anything out of line, and absolutely came clean about every minute detail to your BI.  Oh please......save the fantasy for your polygraph buddies (I mean saints) in the lunchroom.   

Answer this, what do you have to say to all the people who told the truth out there, but were DQ'ed because of your infallible machine?  Not much, I imagine.  As long as there is a long line of applicants, then they are acceptable cannonfodder, so to speak.....right?  As long as it wasn't YOU that was denied the job, then there is no problem, right? 

Maybe sometime in the future you will have to undergo a polygraph exam for that big promotion in your department.  Wouldn't it be poetic justice if you were found to be deceptive?  I can just hear you now, "but sir, I swear on a stack of Bibles that I am telling the truth."  "Sorry Detective Torpedo, you're going to have to return to the parking enforcement division.  We're really sorry, but you know as well as I do that the polygraph is unbeatable, and it is obvious that you are hiding something."  Well, one can only wish.......

Cheers, and wishing you the best in your LE career and sainthood.

Kona

  
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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #12 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 9:55am
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Ryan,

Congratulations on putting your drug use behind you. That said, AntiPolygraph.org was created not to help liars beat the polygraph, but to help the truthful to protect themselves against the random error associated with this invalid test. If, as you indicate, you intend to lie in response to relevant questions, you've come to the wrong place to seek advice on how to shade your lies.

You may well employ countermeasures and beat the polygraph (Torpedo's empty blustering aside). But your posts here point to a much more serious problem.

You have posted using the e-mail address "himmler88@yahoo.com." Heinrich Himmler was one of the main architects of the Holocaust in Nazi Germany. And "88" is neo-nazi shorthand for "Heil Hitler" ("H" being the 8th letter of the alphabet).

It is the duty of law enforcement officers to treat all persons fairly, without regard to race, religion, or ethnic background. Your apparent neo-nazi association casts serious doubt on your suitability for a career in law enforcement.
  

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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #13 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 11:34am
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Quote:
You have posted using the e-mail address "himmler88@yahoo.com." Heinrich Himmler was one of the main architects of the Holocaust in Nazi Germany. And "88" is neo-nazi shorthand for "Heil Hitler" ("H" being the 8th letter of the alphabet).


George,

Amazing! Out here 88 is the name for an asian grocery chain that has a great seafood selection.  I am told it means "good luck" in Chinese. Had no idea about the Nazi connection.

-Marty
  

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Re: drugs and LEO Background Disclosure
Reply #14 - Dec 22nd, 2003 at 5:34pm
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Kona, why do you call yourself those names...I certainly did not call you any of them...lest I be accused of a wrongful attack....it seems to be that there is a psychological factor at work here...where a person so consumed with guilt atttempts to project his guilt by admonishing himself in an effort to punish himself where no one else can (they don't know about your behavior....only you do).  As a matter of fact, I did divulge everything that I believed needed to be told in light of the fact that I was seeking a law enforcement job.  In my case, none, and I mean NONE, of the transgressions were of such magnitude that they would have DQ'd me from my job...and the fact that I chose to divulge what I had done sent a clear message to not only the examiner but those reviewing my application that I was an honest individual....I never intended to go on the attack to you Kona....for I know of others who fit into your category and wear the badge....they just have to be willing to live with themselves.  I hope you have seen the error of your past behaviors and NEVER find the need or desire to revisit those behaviors....there might still be hope for you Kona....but in the future, don't be so aggresively defensive....there is no need!
  
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