Normal Topic Failed Poly and have quick question (Read 2696 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box DaOne
Guest


Failed Poly and have quick question
Oct 9th, 2003 at 4:06pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
As I stated earlier I failed my pre-employment poly with FBI. Basically I realized rather quickly what a joke the poly is after being told I was lying about something that where I was telling the absolute truth.  I want to send my AC an email with some of the NSA findings just to let him know that the proof is out there that plenty of HIGHLY qualified and patriotic people are being denied employment due to this black magic they call polygraphs. Would emailing the Applicant Coordinator be unprofessional and unethical (get in their way of doing productive investigation services)? If not does anyone know how I can obtain his email?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed Poly and have quick question
Reply #1 - Oct 9th, 2003 at 5:00pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
DaOne,

The FBI knows that polygraph screening is unreliable. They know that many honest applicants like yourself are being falsely accused of deception. But they don't care.

E-mailing your AC with the NAS report findings is not likely to help. I think it would be prudent to write a polite letter contesting the results and requesting a re-test. If you are granted a re-test, then you might consider adopting the "complete honesty" approach outlined in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. (It seems likely that FBI polygraphers now expect that persons granted re-tests will have researched polygraphy.)

Also, it would be prudent to look into how best to protect your rights at this point. I suggest that you consult Mark Zaid, who is representing several plaintiffs who are suing the FBI and other federal agencies over their pre-employment polygraph practices. You'll find filings from these cases here:

http://antipolygraph.org/litigation.shtml#zaid

Mr. Zaid's phone number is (202) 223-9050.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Marty
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 27th, 2002
Re: Failed Poly and have quick question
Reply #2 - Oct 9th, 2003 at 10:46pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
DaOne,

The FBI knows that polygraph screening is unreliable. They know that many honest applicants like yourself are being falsely accused of deception. But they don't care.


I think it is not so much a matter of "don't caring", but that they believe any level of false positives below 50% is acceptable so long as the available applicant pool is large enough. The confessions obtained guarantee that statistic and it does in fact reduce somewhat the prevalence of the factors they are screening against. The part that is somewhat dishonest is not telling the examinees the truth about how arbitrary such screens may well be at the start of the application process so they can choose not to participate in the game of chance.

-Marty
  

Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Failed Poly and have quick question
Reply #3 - Oct 10th, 2003 at 5:16am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Marty wrote on Oct 9th, 2003 at 10:46pm:


I think it is not so much a matter of "don't caring", but that they believe any level of false positives below 50% is acceptable so long as the available applicant pool is large enough....


Marty,

You've explained why, but the bottom line remains that the FBI doesn't care that is falsely (and permanently, in the form of an FBI HQ file) branding large numbers of truthful applicants as liars.

Because the Bureau doesn't care about this injustice, informing one's recruiter about the invalidity of polygraphy, as DaOne suggested, is not likely to help.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Failed Poly and have quick question

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X