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Polygraph Counter-countermeasure Techniques (Read 59092 times)
Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box AnalSphincter
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #45 - Feb 10th, 2005 at 5:38pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
George W. Maschke wrote:

"In any event, AntiPolygraph.org has made countermeasure information publicly available and free not to help liars beat the system, but to help honest, law-abiding persons protect themselves against the high risk of a false positive outcome that is associated with the pseudoscience of polygraphy. We cannot make this information available to those who legitimately need it without also making it available to everyone."



George, I find it amusing how you can claim there is a "high risk of a false positive outcome."  Anyone who knows about polygraphy knows that, at least with CQT tests, there is a large chasm between passing a polygraph and out-right failing a polygraph.  That chasm is called "inconclusive."  It takes a lot to leap that chasm--the risk of a false positive is extremely low.  I believe that, more often than not, when a person actually makes that leap, they are indeed hiding some serious skeletons in their closet.  Could it happen, though?  Sure, it's possible.  But what are the odds?  Certainly less than your chances of dying in a plane crash.  You spout rhetoric like you know what you're talking about.  All you really "know" is what other people tell you.  You are simply spewing questionable information to scared little boys and girls, many of whom, even if your countermeaures information actually worked, don't deserve to pass a polygraph or be hired as law enforcement officers.
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« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2005 at 8:09pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #46 - Feb 10th, 2005 at 6:38pm
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I agree with you anal.  funny name too!  I have worked for "the agency" for many years now.  I have taken quite  a few polygraph tests and passed them all and I never used any of the dumb countermeasure stuff on this forum  I probly shouldnt even read the stuff here because it could be detremental (spelling?) to me, huh?
Thanks for being a voic of reason here too.  Oh and how did you get that cool picture next to your name, I want one.
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #47 - Feb 10th, 2005 at 6:46pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Thank you, Loopy.  You have an original name, too.  Is that like CindyLu Who in The Grinch Who Stole Christmas?

So, you like working for the Agency?   Wink I hear they don't pay well.  I'm sorry you have to go through regular polygraphs, if that's the case.  It isn't a pleasant experience, but I believe it's a necessary evil to avoid problems later.

I try to be a voice of reason.  Eventually--and George and Co. know this--I'll tire of these boring bitchers, moaners, whiners and worriers on this forum, and I'll find myself another amusement.  But for now, I like playing devil's advocate and countering the idiotic rhetoric so many people on this forum engage in.

About reading this forum being detrimental to you, it might be if you take any of it seriously.  Just keep taking the polygraph the same way you have--sounds like you have a winning approach.  Any advice to the forum?

Oh, and about the picture: If you go to the top of the page, click on profile, and then go down, you can find the picture add-on section.   Pick a good one so we all recognize you right off.  Later, Loop.   Smiley
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #48 - Feb 10th, 2005 at 7:12pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Thanks again anal. You are my new hero! My advice to the forum is to just be your self and you should pass the polygraph. I am a pretty honest person and I havent had problems with it. I hate taking the polygraph even tho I havent had a really bad experience with it I do not like being asked all those questions. I guess like you say it is a necesary evil. Thanks for telling me how to get a good picture also.
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #49 - Feb 10th, 2005 at 7:19pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Glad to be of service, Loopy.

I like your advice.  Sounds like a winner.  I have taken multiple polygraphs, too, and I have passed them all with no stupid anal or oral manipulations.  No, it's not fun taking a polygraph.  Fortunately I haven't run into any jerk polygraphers--they have all been extremely polite and professional.  Georgie Pordgie would have us believe that they are the enemy, but I haven't yet met a polygrapher I didn't like.

By the way, nice picture.  If you didn't notice yet, even your previous posts have that picture on them now.  I take it you are a female then.  If so, nice to read a female perspective.  If not, sorry buddy!
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« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2005 at 7:43pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #50 - Feb 10th, 2005 at 7:48pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Our polygraphers are nice people too if not just a little strange. So anal where do you work if you dont mind me asking. I kinda told you so maybe you can kinda tell me too. My name is not from the grinch, but that comment made me laugh. Luanne is a special name to me and Im kinda loopy I guess.  Tongue
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #51 - Feb 10th, 2005 at 7:54pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
As the old saying goes, Loopy, "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you."  Just kidding, of course!  I'd rather keep some things to myself, no offense.  Now, niceties aside, let's get back on track with this thread topic of so-called countermeasure techniques.   Wink

I'd like to "challenge" this forum.  All of you who actually lied your asses off on relevant issues in a polygraph and passed despite your lies due to countermeasures, speak up now.  Which relevant questions did you lie to, and which countermeasures did you use to pass?  Before anyone speaks up, make sure you understand what a relevant issue is, or you're going to come off sounding like the release of gas through a real anal sphincter. 8)  Also, make sure you read up on the difference between a conclusion of deception and a conclusion of inconclusive.  There are enough morons on this board who don't know the difference in either case, so don't be one of them.
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #52 - Feb 11th, 2005 at 2:49pm
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ok anal I will accept that. I just love your wit and humor!!!  Are you single by any chance?  oops, guess that answers if I'm a female. I dont think anybodys gonna accept that challenge though. who wants to admit they really lied on the polgraph? what if big brother is watching? I for one would just like to tell people that if they want to pass the polygraph dont mess with it and you should do fine.  those guys really know what they are doing and they will see right through you. bye bye now.
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #53 - Feb 11th, 2005 at 3:22pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
Loopy, I have just one question for you:

What are you wearing?   Wink

I'm glad you like the show, Loop.  I'm in town til Thursday.

Now, don't everyone jump at once to the "challenge."  Time for a little self-disclosure here.

(Other than the sound of crickets, silence . . . )
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #54 - Feb 11th, 2005 at 7:24pm
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The same reasons that polygraphs are not used in court are the same as the reasons why polygraphs should not be used against anyone applying for a job.

THEY ARE NOT ACCURATE ANY WHERE NEAR 100%

Meaning for those who are hard headed, they do not work.
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #55 - Feb 11th, 2005 at 7:27pm
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WOW!  Now lets all play nice, This is the best board I have found. I just had to say that..

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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #56 - Feb 11th, 2005 at 7:46pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
PG, you can't just lay that out there and not expect to be hammered, buddy.

So, here is a reply I just sent to one of your most distinguished (or should I say extinguished) senior members, Gino Scalabrini.  Thank heavens for cut and paste:

OK, Gino.  Although this will probably just lead to both of us citing studies and articles that none of the worriers on this forum will actually read, I'll humor you . . . at least once.  We'll look like two people arguing over the true meaning of an obscure Biblical passage.    

In 1983, the Office of Technology Assessment of the United States Congress selected 10 field studies they believed had scientific merit.  The overall accuracy of the polygraph decisions was 90% on criterion-guilty suspects and 80%  on criterion-innocent suspects (Lykken, D.T. (1997) The detection of deception.  Psychological Bulletin , 86, 47-53).

Pretty darned good, huh, Gino?  It gets better, so read on:

In 1997, the Committee of Concerned Social Scientists found four significant field studies that showed the average accuracy of field decisions for the CQT (comparison question test) was 90.5%.  It is signficant, though, that nearly all of the errors made by the CQT were false positive errors.  (Still, when you're dealing with accuracy over 90%, don't place too much emphasis on those FP's--besides, it just gets better after this, Gino.)  In the four studies, the data was derived from independent evaluations of the physiological data (the raw charts).   Because it is usually the original examiners who testify in court, and because they obviously make the decisions on how to proceed in their exams, the Committee went further in an effort to ascertain their accuracy compared to that of the independent examiners.  The Committee also included an additional two studies in this evaluation.  What they found was that the original examiners were even more accurate than the independent examiners.  In fact, the mean acccuracy for the innocent was 98%, while the mean accuracy for the guilty was 97%.  The studies used by the Committee are as follows:

Horvath, F.S. (1977)  The effect of selected variables on interpretation of polygraph records. Journal of Applied Psychology, 62, 127-136.

Honts, C.R. and Raskin, D.C. (1988) A field study of the validity of the directed lie control question. Journal of Police Science and Administration, 16, 56-61.

Kleinmuntz, B. and Szucko, J. (1984) A field study of the fallibility of polygraphic lie detection.  Nature, 308, 449-450.

Raskin, D.C., Kircher, J.C., Honts, C.R. and Horowitz, S.W.(1988)  A Study of the Validity of Polygraph Examinations in Criminal Investigation, Grant No. 85-IJ-CX-0040.  Salt Lake City: Department of Psychology, University of Utah.

Patrick, C.J. and Iacano, W.G. (1991) Validity of the control question polygraph test: The problem of sampling bias.  Journal of Applied Psychology, 76, 229-238.

Honts, C.R. (1996) Criterion development and validity of the control question test in field application.  The Journal of General Psychology, 123, 309-324.

So much for your crystal ball/tarot card/flip of the coin analogies, huh, Gino?

(By the way, those two sunglassed smilies in the dates of one Honts and one Raskin reference should be 1988--your forum has a problem with the number one thousand nine hundred and eighty-eight--it shows the last eight as a smiley--weird!)


Go ahead and come back with some more referenced studies that the worried boys and girls on this forum won't ever read.  This is more for you and me, Gino, just so you and I both know that I know what I'm talking about.  The difference between you and me, though, is that all you can do is counter with your own citations, while I have real-world experience and have rubbed elbows with the Top Guns of the polygraph world.  Take your best shot, Gino.  I probably won't waste so much time to counter your inane, memorized rhetoric again, so rest easy, baby!

Oh, where, oh where has my little George gone, oh where, oh where can he be?  He'll be back, of course. This ridiculous forum is his whole life.  He's not much good for anything but entertainment, though.

Now, back to my "challenge."  That's right, I thought so--nothing but the sound of crickets in the grass.  Ha ha ha ha ha!!! I slay me!

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« Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2005 at 8:14pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #57 - Feb 12th, 2005 at 3:47am
Mark & Quote Quote 
I have a question if polygraph is 97% accurate what happens to the 3 that are wrongly accused or released. How does the inconclusive results figure in.
   
  Polygraphist claim that accuracy rates are as high as 97% but that rules out inconclusive results that are obtained 15-25% of the time. Inconclusive is an error or an inaccuracy if you can not make an opinion then it should be considered inaccurate.

  Lets see out of 100 people tested here is my question.

Say 40 were (DI) deception indicated
   40 were (NDI) no deception indicated
   20 were inconclusive how do you figure that is anywhere near the average   accuracy claims that were posted.
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Reply #58 - Feb 12th, 2005 at 5:03am
Mark & Quote Quote 
Posts by "Anal Sphincter" and "LoopyLuWho" in this message thread originated from the same IP address.
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Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #59 - Feb 12th, 2005 at 12:47pm
Mark & Quote Quote 
OH MY GOSH!!!    Kiss

Loopy, have you been spying on me?

If this means what I think it means, here's the  plan for Monday:

High noon.  The table in the northeast corner by the water fountain.  I'll be wearing something red.  Be there.
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2005 at 1:17pm by N/A »  
 
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