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does doug williams' book offer anything additional (Read 8304 times)

retest Guest	does doug williams' book offer anything additional Sep 6^th, 2003 at 6:02am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I have read George's book at least 5 times. Went to my test on Monday and used CM's. Did alright except a few questions made me very nervous regarding computer use. I could feel my heart pounding in my chest. Does Doug's book help with that? Scheduled for a retest next week


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Saidme Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 311 Joined: Jun 11^th, 2003	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #1 - Sep 8^th, 2003 at 5:48pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I smell failure. George, I didn't think CM's were detectable?


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saidwho? Guest	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #2 - Sep 8^th, 2003 at 5:56pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	He did not say his cm's were detected, he said his heart was pounding, that is not a cm. BTW, is there anything you can do when your pounding heart gives you away?


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orolan Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 363 Joined: Dec 25^th, 2002	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #3 - Sep 8^th, 2003 at 11:44pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Saidme, Are you saying now that if an examiner detects CM's a retest will be offered? How nice of you. Sounds more like an "inconclusive" to me.

	"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
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Saidme Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 311 Joined: Jun 11^th, 2003	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #4 - Sep 9^th, 2003 at 2:26am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Saidwho (me ) Yeah, confess. Orolan, Probably setting him up for a nice post-test interview. Aren't you part of the crowd that is convinced CM's aren't detectable?


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saidwho Guest	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #5 - Sep 9^th, 2003 at 2:53am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	so you are claiming that a rapidly beating heart is a CM then? Geez, you polygraphers really DON'T know how to detect CM's....you're looking for the wrong thing!


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Skeptic God Member Offline Posts: 549 Joined: Jun 24^th, 2002	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #6 - Sep 9^th, 2003 at 3:44am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Saidme wrote on Sep 9^th, 2003 at 2:26am: Saidwho (me ) Yeah, confess. Which, of course, would hardly be necessary if the polygraph were reliable. Confessions are everything. Without them, the polygraph is worthless. I guarantee you, Saidwho, that your heart will be beating a lot faster once you realize you've been duped into confessing to something... Skeptic


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orolan Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 363 Joined: Dec 25^th, 2002	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #7 - Sep 9^th, 2003 at 3:48am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Saidme, Yes, I am part of that crowd that insists CM's can't be detected. That is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that you insist they are. So, when you "detect" them, do you offer a retest? If the examiner in this case "detected" CM's, why waste time on another test? Why wasn't he disqualified on the spot?

	"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
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retest Guest	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #8 - Sep 9^th, 2003 at 4:34am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	is there a chance they did a retest because it was late in the day? It was already 5:40 pm when they sent me home, maybe they just wanted to split? Anyway I can counter a fast beating heart? One thing I recognized for certain is that everything that came out of his mouth was total bullshit, I could see right through it, textbook


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6225 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #9 - Sep 9^th, 2003 at 9:58am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I don't know of any way to suppress an increase in heart rate except, perhaps, by taking a sedative. Remember, though, that the test is scored by comparing reactions to relevant versus "control" questions, and the key to "passing" is to produce stronger reactions to the latter.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Neo New User Offline Posts: 9 Joined: Sep 4^th, 2003 Gender:	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #10 - Sep 10^th, 2003 at 4:22pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: . . . Did alright except a few questions made me very nervous regarding computer use. I could feel my heart pounding in my chest. What caused you to be nervous? Are there any concerns that were directly related to the relevant issues? Neo


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Skeptic God Member Offline Posts: 549 Joined: Jun 24^th, 2002	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #11 - Sep 10^th, 2003 at 7:58pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Neo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2003 at 4:22pm: What caused you to be nervous? Are there any concerns that were directly related to the relevant issues? Neo I can't speak for Retest, but when I took my polygraphs, I was quite nervous through the whole sessions (all three of them). It had very little to do with "concerns about the relevant issues" and a lot to do with fear that I was going to be rejected from job candidacy, or worse, seen as a criminal. The nervousness especially manifested itself on questions regarding serious crimes. Perhaps this is something some of those in authority are blind to, but when an authority figure starts questioning you, it can be a tad nervewracking, regardless of whether you've done anything wrong. I was brought up to respect authority figures, and I don't want them thinking bad things about me (perhaps irrational, but even so). As I see it, this is one of the fundamental flaws in the polygraph -- especially as it seems to be used right now by certain agencies (Relevant/Irrelevant format). Skeptic


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Marty Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 499 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2002	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #12 - Sep 10^th, 2003 at 8:30pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Skeptic wrote on Sep 10^th, 2003 at 7:58pm: I can't speak for Retest, but when I took my polygraphs, I was quite nervous through the whole sessions (all three of them). It had very little to do with "concerns about the relevant issues" and a lot to do with fear that I was going to be rejected from job candidacy, or worse, seen as a criminal. I think such dissonance induced nervousness is most likely when a poly knowledgable person is polygraphed since they are fully aware of the "science" behind the polygraph. Facing a poly with significant false positive probability during an initial interview would be a deterent, but not an absolute one, in the decision to pursue a career requiring one. Facing a poly every 5 years would likley keep me from applying for such a job at all. I would be unwilling to embark on a career with significant probability for arbitrary termination. -Marty

	Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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Skeptic God Member Offline Posts: 549 Joined: Jun 24^th, 2002	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #13 - Sep 10^th, 2003 at 9:34pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Marty wrote on Sep 10^th, 2003 at 8:30pm: I think such dissonance induced nervousness is most likely when a poly knowledgable person is polygraphed since they are fully aware of the "science" behind the polygraph. Facing a poly with significant false positive probability during an initial interview would be a deterent, but not an absolute one, in the decision to pursue a career requiring one. Facing a poly every 5 years would likley keep me from applying for such a job at all. I would be unwilling to embark on a career with significant probability for arbitrary termination. -Marty Marty, You've nailed on the head the primary reason I withdrew my candidacy for the NSA position. Skeptic


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Skeptic God Member Offline Posts: 549 Joined: Jun 24^th, 2002	Re: does doug williams' book offer anything additi Reply #14 - Sep 11^th, 2003 at 2:33am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	To clarify the above and to forestall the inevitable polygraph trolling, knowing about the polygraph's flaws before I took one is not something I can "blame" on Antipolygraph.org, since I'd learned about the shortcomings in my Psychology undergrad days. Skeptic


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