Saidme wrote on Aug 21^st, 2003 at 2:08am:


Oh yes, you are soooo correct about that. I have absolutely no idea about bamboozling a polygrapher, none whatsoever, no siree. Everyone in your profession is sharp as a tack, quick to point out the use of countermeasures. I can hardly wait to spend a few weeks in training, lay out some large bills for questionable software and equipment, and render "expert" opinions on an examinee's veracity. I want to be part of that gravy train just like you. I promise to uphold the honor and dignity of the profession. Christ, with all that high tech polygraph equipment and expert training, I won't have to troll for the truth; I'll be able to divine it with the pneumo tubes/GSR/BP cuff. If there is smoke, there is fire. That will be my motto/mantra. A little spike there in blood pressure? Aha! Caught another lying son-of-a-bitch. Chalk one up for the god guys, oops, I mean good guys.

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Saidme,

When will you and your community realize that you are all on borrowed time?  You are one major incident away from the polygraph being put to sleep forever.

We are a very reactionary society.  Our airliners got hijacked, so we locked cockpit doors and gave pilots guns.  We tripled security in the terminals and x-ray everything in sight.

The 20 year old space shuttle crashes.  We blame it on old systems and engineering and now we pour money into a new space progeam.

The northeast blacked out, and we blamed it on antique power systems which we will replace with new ones immediately, again abandoning the old systems and pouring money into new ones.

For Americans, it doesn't matter how old or poor a system is until it fails.  And when it does fail, beware those involved with that system, for the index finger of blame holds much weight in the arena of public opinion.

For every one of these examples, there have been people (like all of us here) who bitched and moaned about how poor the current system was.  Whether it was slack airport security, overused spacecraft, or old power lines, there have been people who have complained before the major incident hit.

It won't be a Barbara Walters 20/20 expose or a snipit on the evening news.  It will have to be big.  Real big.
So the next time a spy causes major havoc in a government agency, or some polygrapher "ensures a DI chart" on an innocent who happens to be the child of someone very important, it may be the spark that lights our overreaction fires.

And trust me, polygrapher, you will see how fast you are turned on.  Those who say how great your profession is today will turn on you and tell you how sick an individual you are for manipulating peoples's lives.  You will be spun around so fast, the only person you will be able to relate to is the pre-9/11 airport security guard.

Overreaction -- it's the American way.

Chris

PS - nice to see all the debate didn't die down while I was away.

Saidme,

Your reasoning that because of the untold numbers of successes the poly has had, the false positives and failed dreams of many applicants should be of little concern rings of the foundation of communism.

Are you a communist.  Screw the few for the betterment of the many?

I will be getting back to your other post regarding continuing the poly after detecting CM's. I just have to wade through your 250 some posts to find it.

Saidme wrote on Aug 21^st, 2003 at 2:07pm:


What is the criterion for being in the bottom tier of the food chain? Who are you to judge? Is this your idea of humor?

Saidme wrote on Aug 21^st, 2003 at 6:11pm:


No you don't.  You knocked me off so you could get on.   

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First of all, how you get off saying that the polygraph only has "percieved" failures is beyond me.  I sat in your damned chair.  I was told I was a spy and unfaithful to my nation.  I saw the failure of the polygraph firsthand, and watched 2 friends fail in similar fashion, at the hands of the same man and his foolish machine.  These failures are in no way "percieved."

I have been around LE all of my life, and the polygraph has always been a favorable tool, when used properly.  But the widespread jurisdiction it has been granted well exceeds its narrow window of accuracy.  Yet our agencies still hold blind faith in its effectiveness.  Until a major incident opens their eyes, it will not change, and you will remain as self-righteous and arrogant about how wonderful your profession is until that day.

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Funny you use the word "countless."  The numbers are countless, because they can't be counted.  No lab can accurately reproduce real life polygraph test stressors, so your accuracy numbers are bogus.  And how is it that polygraphers "count" their numbers, anyway?  How can they know their failure rate if they don't know whether they let a deceptive individual pass?  How many polygraphs did Aldrich Ames pass?  When he did pass, was he "counted" as an accuarate test?   

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I stand corrected.  Overreaction and bitching and moaning -- THEY are the American ways.

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Once again, a polygrapher questions my patriotism.  See, I would NEVER hope and pray for some major disaster.  And I wouldn't ask anyone else to do so.  That's a line I refuse to cross.  But your DoDPI training teaches you to cross that line, doesn't it.  Work that reaction out of the subject, right?  It's the only way to "ensure the DI."

It's your soap box, Saidme.   

Chris

I will reply for Saidme.
When he comes to an intellectual standstill (which he does often) and is unable to counter something he will say:
"See George, arn't you proud of the people representing you" or some other one liner of that nature.

-OkieBoy