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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph is a fraud (Read 36157 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Saidme
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #30 - Aug 9th, 2003 at 5:24pm
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Mr T

As I've stated on other threads, I don't give much credence to the NAS reports or anyone else's.  I have to base my beliefs on day-to-day operations.  Regarding polyscore, it's crap.  What allows me to pump out those reports are DI charts with confessions to match.  Maybe when I get DI charts on a child molestor next time, I should just cut him/her loose.  Hell, it's not scientifically valid, why the hell should I waste my time talking to this poor unfortunate soul who was wrongfully accused.  You anti guys are a trip. Cheesy
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #31 - Aug 9th, 2003 at 6:02pm
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As long as people continue to believe there is some validity to use of the polygraph, then you will continue to have post-test confessions when these gullible sheep are confronted with "what were you thinking on this question, because my charts show you are lying."

If someone is lying and coughs it up because of what the polygrapher does, well, they shouldn't have been lying in the first place, and they deserve the lumps that await them.

Being a victim of false positives many times, listening to some "expert" state his opinion regarding the veracity of what I answered, and having to answer to a brilliantly educated criminal justice major probation officer, well, no need to beat a dead horse. THAT is what pissed me off to no end. Again, I'd like to thank all of those in your profession for helping me get on board about how screwed up the polygraph is. Your faith in what you do is what inspires me to help expose the polygraph for the fraud it is.
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #32 - Aug 11th, 2003 at 9:06pm
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Okieboy & Orolan:

Just the thought of a scum bag like Mr. Truth being on this site scares the hell out of me. Anyone that could
rape their daughter or any child deserves the ultimate punishment. Mr. Truth lecturing Okieboy, what a joke
that is.. Mr. Truth gave up his right to live in this world when he committed his horrendous act. I am a little shocked that either of you would give him the time of day.
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #33 - Aug 11th, 2003 at 10:18pm
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Thank you for your input, PeterFonda (quite the role model name you picked for yourself). Let me help you sleep better tonight: I didn't rape anyone. What I did or didn't do doesn't really matter. I had my head up my ass, guilty as charged. Gee, I really, really wish I had chosen drugs or alcohol, or committed domestic violence, because the effects of someone using or doing those things, is, well, so much less than what I did. Oh well, better luck next life. Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #34 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 4:43am
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PeterFonda,
I believe we've had this conversation before. You don't know the whole story about Mr. Truth's offense, any more than we know the whole story about yours.
Jesus said "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone".
Be careful with the stones you throw, because some of them may bounce back and hit you.
  

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #35 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 8:50am
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>>>Gee, I really, really wish I had chosen drugs or alcohol, or committed domestic violence, because the effects of someone using or doing those things, is, well, so much less than what I did. Oh well, better luck next life. Have a nice day.

Is he being serious or sarcastic?  I can't tell if he is minimalizing his crime or just making fun of himself.

Anyway, Mr. Truth, let me just ask you something up front if you don't mind.
Did you molest your daugher, knowing very well what you were doing, or were you falsely accused by a vendictive wife or something of that nature?

I know someone who served his wife divorce papers and next thing he knew he was behind bars because she accused him of molesting their daughter.  The daughter admitted to the molestation in court and this guy was sentenced to 75 years.  Five years later, the girl was older and went to the police and the Judge and admitted that her mother coerced her into lying about the molestation and the charges were nulled and the guy was let out of jail.
Tough life huh?

And so, Mr. Truth, if you did molest your daughter...why?

  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #36 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 7:24pm
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I did it, I'm guilty, at the time I was in complete denial of what I was doing (in that it was harming anyone). 

Why? That is the hardest question of all to answer. Why would anyone want to trash a career and lose retirement benefits, go thru a hugely expensive divorce, go through the legal system (on the receiving end of things), and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on counseling (and polygraphs)? Why would anyone want to put himself in a position where he has to face his daughter and try to explain to her why you, as an adult, did what you did? Why would anyone in his mid-30's wake up one day and say, "Gee, today I am going to become a sex offender. Let me throw away everything I have worked for just so I can make myself feel better for a few minutes." Why? Why does anyone do something bad? I don't blame anyone but myself.

Yes, I was being sarcastic about myself. If it makes anyone else feel better, I was also cheating on my wife, so my acting out wasn't focused in one area (translated: no, my interest is not in children). No alcohol, no drugs, "just" sex.

What I did, although it may provide some interesting reading for others, in no way diminishes the fact that the polygraph is a complete fraud. You only have my word for this, but I did not "beat" the test so I could cover up doing something illegal. I was sick and tired of getting nailed with deception indicated on questions that I was truthfully answering.

Are there others out there beating the test and reoffending? I don't know. Are there others out there beating the test and spying on the US? I don't know, but if history is any indicator, you can probably bet the farm on it. Why I had to take the polygraph falls into the so what? category. The fact of the matter is the "instrument" is being used with a result of providing people with a false sense of security (we're catching spies, we're weeding out the undesirables from law enforcement careers, and we're able to monitor the behavior of sex offenders).
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #37 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 10:28pm
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Orolan,

Its seems that you are a person who looks for the positive in all people, and that is truly admirable! I asked you before what you do for a living. After going back and reading numerous posts from you on various
topics, I would guess that you are a counselor, or in some way work with troubled “souls”..

I can relate to your comments of not rushing to judgement, but in this case Mr. Truth has openly admitted to child abuse.  Although he is very remorseful for his act, we must face the fact that he has a severe thinking disorder, a warped sense of right and wrong. As you have pointed out, we are not aware of the particulars in his case, but one thing is clear, he was aroused by a child? The very thought of that makes me sick with disgust.

Orolan, let me ask you, when is a criminal beyond therapy? Beyond being allowed to live amongst us? The
answer in my opinion is simple, at the point they stop being people and become monsters. Face it,  Mr.
Truth is just that, a monster. He comes to this site pretending to be a person, but down deep he knows what he is and no amount of therapy will ever change it.

Would you not agree that people who kill for kicks have no place on this earth? How about the guy that
rapes or sexually abuses a child to get his rocks off?

I wonder if Mr. Truth’s little girl will ever live a normal life? The scare from being abused by ones own
father would seem to be a great deal of baggage.

Finally, I have a little girl 7 and a boy 9. If they ever crossed the path of someone like Mr. Truth,
therapy would not be an option.


Peter
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #38 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 10:43pm
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Whatever.
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #39 - Aug 13th, 2003 at 1:50am
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George

Some of your champion students sound like real prizes. 

Orolan

I'm not much on religion, where are the rock Winks?
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #40 - Aug 13th, 2003 at 2:24am
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I used to live for the approval of my (ex) wife. As I can no longer come close to obtaining her approval, I must seek out another whom I can please. Saidme, you are my hero, and I live for your approval.
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #41 - Aug 13th, 2003 at 2:35am
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PeterFonda,
Yes, you did ask me once what I did for a living. I told you to send me an e-mail and I would tell you. But I also said you would have to convince me that you will keep it to yourself and not post it on this board or any other. The offer still stands. Just click my byline and it will take you to my profile. You'll find the address there.
To answer your questions in their paragraph order:
Yes, Mr. Truth admitted to his crime. I disagree with your assessment that he has a severe thinking disorder. Many people know that something they are about to do is wrong, but go ahead and do it anyway. Succumbing to that temptation to do the "forbidden" is quite common, and it can be argued that the actions are equally wrong regardless of what they may be. I can't speak about Mr. Truth becoming "aroused" by a child, because I don't know the age of the child or the extent of his arousal, if any. I do know one sex offender here in my community who gets an adrenaline rush by "pleasing" females in ways other than intercourse, if you get my drift. He was quite compulsive about it, and branched out into pleasing teenagers, which is what got him in trouble. Sexual arousal? Not him. He's 100% impotent and sterile, according to the MD's. So not all molestations are about sexual arousal/gratification.

I agree somewhat with your assessment of people's ability to be rehabilitated. A person who will commit crime after crime, with no remorse or concious thought of doing wrong, is beyond therapy. True "serial" rapists, murderers and child molesters have a mental imbalance that prevents them from "knowing" what they are doing. But this theory applies also to those people who are pathological liars and kleptomaniacs. Shall we lock them up forever, since they will never change? Or does the fact that their crimes are "harmless" excuse the behavior? Regardless, there is no evidence to indicate that Mr. Truth has an obsessive compulsion to molest children. Nor is there any evidence that you have an obsessive compulsion to beat the crap out of women. You both committed your crime once. So why is he a monster, but you aren't? Now if he had molested his daughter repeatedly over a period of years, or gotten ahold of every 10 year-old in the neighborhood, you might have a case for his incurability. But that isn't the case.

The above pretty well covers your next paragraph.

Mr. Truth's daughter may or may not live a "normal" life. Problem is, who can define a "normal" life? Yes, she may be traumatized by what happened to her. Or she may not. Odds are, the severity of her trauma will be affected more by what others tell her about how "horrible" it must have been then by the event itself. Again, since we don't know her or the specifics, we can't make a judgement.

And finally, I too have children. They aren't as young as yours anymore, being 16, 17 and 19. And all three of them are girls. I wondered and worried about them when they were little girls, so I taught them what was right and what was wrong. My oldest nearly got expelled from the first grade for beating the crap out of a third-grade boy who cupped her butt-cheek in his hand during recess.
Statistically, I wouldn't worry about Mr. Truth being around your kids. Around 60-70% of molestations are parent-on-child, and a very small percentage, around 3%, re-offend. So the fact is that statistically, your kids are in more danger of being molested by you than by him. Now if he had molested a stranger, you would have reason to be cautious.

  

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #42 - Aug 13th, 2003 at 2:54am
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Mr T

Now you're on the right track.  Keep away from those kids! Wink
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #43 - Aug 13th, 2003 at 3:03am
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Thank you, Saidme. I just knew I picked the correct role model.  Smiley
  
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Re: Polygraph is a fraud
Reply #44 - Aug 13th, 2003 at 4:25am
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Orolan,

You said:

"Around 60-70% of molestations are parent-on-child"

What is the break down on the parents, what percentage male to female? Mom or Dad??

Peter
  
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