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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 3rd Edition Coming Soon (Read 21197 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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3rd Edition Coming Soon
Jul 29th, 2003 at 12:06pm
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Work on the 3rd edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detectoris nearly completed, and a public release is anticipated in August 2003.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #1 - Jul 29th, 2003 at 2:46pm
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George,

Maybe I've missed where you previously discussed this, but what are the differences between the 2nd and 3rd editions? Just curious.  Smiley

Thanks,

PK
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #2 - Jul 29th, 2003 at 9:58pm
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It is a relatively minor update compared to the 2nd edition. Details will be posted when the new edition goes on-line.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
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Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #3 - Aug 8th, 2003 at 12:06am
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I just wanted to point out that if the baseline on tests is raised, then the outcome can be deemed useless.

As an example, if everyone appeared to lie on a lie detector, would that not be the norm? The suspicion would revert to those that pass since they are the outer 3 sigma of the population.

Where am I going with this? I would like to see developments in high tech countermeasures that remove the human element from the equation.

Having said that, let's state that the polygraph is in essence, an electrical conductivity test with electronic bio monitors in place. With that in mind, it is possible to "jam" electronics in numerous ways both local and remotely.

If anyone out there has a thought along this line, please reply. I think we could make a fortune in totally disabling the polygraph system by EMF and such. Remember that it's not our responsibility that the equipment malfunctions, right? 

Just rambling on,

AH
  
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #4 - Aug 8th, 2003 at 12:25am
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You have two pneumo tubes around your chest to monitor respiration rate. There are two gizmos attached to two fingertips to monitor GSR. Bloodpressure cuff used to monitor blood pressure and pulse rate.

These feed into a little box that is nothing more than a transducer. What is a transducer? A device to convert mechanical input into electrical output (http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?transducer). The electrical output goes into the computer. The software on the computer (like Polyscore), takes the signals and converts to the rather "scientific" displays, As Seen on TV, no less.

How to counter that process using EMF? Well, there is always the nifty side-effect of an atomic bomb, EMP, that would be sure to create the effect you are looking for. Downside: a lot of people with really, really bad sunburns (think Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2).

Being a movie buff, you may be thinking of that device used in Ocean's Eleven, the one used to shut down the entire electric grid for a city. Upside: the test is stopped. Downside: your mother may be in surgery.

Okay, so let's scale down the weapons a bit. Some form of transmission that would jumble the input into the computer would do the trick. Where to aim it, how to aim it, how powerful, how big, where do you use it from, what about side effects on other computer users? Once that is discovered, all it takes is a shielded cable to protect the transducer/computer connection. Just like the way your cable TV cable uses a shielded jacket so outside/interferring signals are not allowed to affect the cable transmission.

Got your work cut out for you, don't you?
  
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #5 - Aug 8th, 2003 at 2:02am
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Not really, I am an engineer, mostly digital and not analog as in electro-disturbance techniques. My thought is simple (as most of mine are), use a Tesla coil device. They can be very small to quite large you know.  Come on guys, I'm serious. It can be done. Don't let people drive your life and will…. nor explain that "it cannot be done, your doomed" syndrome.

I have numerous patents in high tech and publications. Not speaking off the cuff here, looking for really ingenious people who can make it happen. 

For profit? You bet, can you think of a better reason to deliver freedom and make money for those that have been "marked" by society as Godless and without hope. Find a need and fill it.

Gee, I would do it for free if I was wealthy philanthropist, but not the case here. Just want to help those that have been wronged by the technology that I help create and now regret.

Thoughts?

Regards,

AH
  
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #6 - Aug 8th, 2003 at 4:39am
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aldo_huxley wrote on Aug 8th, 2003 at 2:02am:
Not really, I am an engineer, mostly digital and not analog as in electro-disturbance techniques. My thought is simple (as most of mine are), use a Tesla coil device. They can be very small to quite large you know.  Come on guys, I'm serious. It can be done. Don't let people drive your life and will…. nor explain that "it cannot be done, your doomed" syndrome.

Telsa Coil?  I don't think ionizing the air locally or even the fairly high RF field would have any effect on a polygraph. High RF fields are pretty ubiquitous these days and most instruments are designed to neither emit nor respond to significant levels of EM fields. None of the polygraph sensors are intrinsically sensitive to EM fields.

-Marty
  

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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #7 - Aug 8th, 2003 at 6:00am
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Try out a Tesla coil in your house with your computer on. Proof is in the pudding so to speak. Another approach is to use a 13.56MHz RF generator. Unshielded unit will cease up any CPU or MPU within a 150 foot radius.

Just thinking out load.

AH
  
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #8 - Aug 9th, 2003 at 3:21am
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Aldo,

One agency that I tested for made me leave my briefcase in another room.   

They said that it was necessary because an applicant might attempt to disrupt the 'test' through electronic means.

I think that they were just paranoid that I might sneak in a tape recorder (which I wish I had).

I think that if your were caught trying to disrupt the process you could kiss that agency goodbye forever and it probably wouldn't look good on other applications.
  
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #9 - Aug 9th, 2003 at 3:38am
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Who says I will have anything on me? A fairly higher power system can disrupt a whole floor of a building if the structural frame has steel girders (they act as antennae with an RF generator). The system can be placed anywhere in proximity of the office including nearby offices, restrooms, etc. as far as this is concerned. Of course, a decent power outlet is required. Take notice that if installed and left on, the polygraph office will be rendered useless and it could drive them at least from this local, or worse out of business, therefore I do not suggest such actions. This is just an exercise in theory. Much the same as what I got in trouble for, not reality, just thinking. Take what I say as “fantasy” thinking, LOL.

AH
  
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #10 - Aug 9th, 2003 at 5:21am
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suethem wrote on Aug 9th, 2003 at 3:21am:
Aldo,

One agency that I tested for made me leave my briefcase in another room.  

They said that it was necessary because an applicant might attempt to disrupt the 'test' through electronic means.

I think that they were just paranoid that I might sneak in a tape recorder (which I wish I had).

I think your hypothesis was most likely correct. Hey, what's another polygrapher's lie. BTW, in some states it would be legal to tape an exam without all parties being informed, in others it isn't. Tripp learned all about that.

-Marty
  

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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #11 - Aug 9th, 2003 at 5:48am
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aldo_huxley wrote on Aug 9th, 2003 at 3:38am:
Who says I will have anything on me? A fairly higher power system can disrupt a whole floor of a building if the structural frame has steel girders (they act as antennae with an RF generator). The system can be placed anywhere in proximity of the office including nearby offices, restrooms, etc. as far as this is concerned. Of course, a decent power outlet is required. Take notice that if installed and left on, the polygraph office will be rendered useless and it could drive them at least from this local, or worse out of business, therefore I do not suggest such actions. This is just an exercise in theory. Much the same as what I got in trouble for, not reality, just thinking. Take what I say as “fantasy” thinking, LOL.
AH

AH,
Near field effects from a Tesla operating at 13.56MHz dominate only out to about 20 ft or so. After that a Tesla is pretty much the same as a conventional RF source albeit operating at whatever the ERP happens to be. (Telsa's, like all shortened antennas, are not efficient). There is also some modulation and spurious high freqs from the HV arcing's non-linear effects.

You are quite correct that, inside a metal structure, you will get some amplification due to standing waves, depending on the construction.

I stand by my statement that most polygraph equipment of recent design would not be affected by "normal" Tesla's at 150 feet.

-Marty
  

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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #12 - Aug 9th, 2003 at 10:33pm
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Sorry, but I did not make myself clear. Tesla coil was just and idea, the 13.56 MHz generator I was speaking of is a linear design. We had a near disaster due to 13.56 MHz system which had RF leakage affecting a system about 150 feet away where the CPU was "frozen" as were the sensors of a hot acid bath and the critical temperature was almost reached before I used the old fashioned method of  a mercury thermometer. Gee, I ramble. Funny thing, the leakage and effect was due to 1 screw missing from a cooling fan. I think you can image what you could do intentionally if you so desire. To clear things up a bit, the generator is 1KW design. 

AH
  
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #13 - Aug 10th, 2003 at 5:45am
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AH,
If you somehow manage to disrupt the workings of the polygraph, no doubt it will be readily apparent to the polygrapher. So he'll just reschedule your exam for another day. 
So how many times do you suppose it would take for the testing agency to figure out that the machine only goes t_ts-up when you are around?

Better to work to eliminate the machine entirely, rather than seek some mechanical means to disrupt it.
  

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: 3rd Edition Coming Soon
Reply #14 - Aug 10th, 2003 at 7:56am
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If you turn on your system at a time your not scheduled, leave it on till dommsday so to speak, they cannot do there job, EVER! 

No connection to you, they are rendered helpless.

Think about that, yea takes effor and planning, but it can be done.

Last post on this subject. I just wanted to throw it out there.

Later,

AH
  
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