AntiPolygraph.org Message Board - Calling his Bluff?

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Calling his Bluff? (Read 13090 times)

Mike Epps Guest	Calling his Bluff? Jul 25^th, 2003 at 1:04am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Just had my poly yesterday for the FBI SA position. After the exam was complete, the examiner claimed I was not truthful on one certain question? HE WOULD NEVER TELL ME WHAT IT WAS!! He said I should tell him, and he knew? I told him I did not lie? He said he wasn't sure if I passed/failed, but there was a problem, and it's up to headquarters to decide? He claimed to know all about me from this test (Very Funny). My guess is, I passed and he was doing a last gasp attempt to get something out of me? Is it true if there was a problem, the examiner would tell me what the problem question was??? Any advice would be helpful!! Thanks!


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Saidme Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 311 Joined: Jun 11^th, 2003	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #1 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 2:56am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mike Contrary to popular belief, polygraph examiner's who run pre-employment examinations would love for you to pass your polygraph. If you think examiner's are out to turn up every misdeed you did then someone's misled you. Can't imagine what website that would have done that. My question is, since you've obviously been on this website, did you use CM's? Maybe you didn't have a problem with any one particular question. Maybe your charts were riddled with CM's which were beyond obvious. Maybe he's decided to let QC deal with it. Examiner's won't necessarily tell you what question you had a problem with, however, if they evaluated you DI(deception indicated) then I would imagine there would have been a post-test interview. Again, the exception might be if they saw alot of CM activity.


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Mike Epps Guest	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #2 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 4:18am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Thank you "Saidme" for your reply!! No..I did not use "CM." I did tell the truth!!! Based on this..I'm wondering is my chances are 50/50? Examiner said, it could go either way? You mean to tell me he couldn't give me an idea at the present time?


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random New User Offline Posts: 3 Joined: Jun 30^th, 2003	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #3 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 5:55am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	If the examiner had detected a problem with a particular question, he would have put you through an interrogation. Since he didn't do it, you can safely assume that there was nothing for him to elicit and you are NDI. Bottom line, with no major derogatory information coming out during your polygraph exam, headquarters will proceed with the next phase until your file is complete and an adjudicator can look at it and make a determination based on the "Whole Person" concept.


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Mike Epps Guest	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #4 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 6:06am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Thanks "Random!!" Bottom line..he was bullshitting me correct??


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #5 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 8:54am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mike, I agree with Saidme and Random that if your polygraph results had been "deception indicated," you would have been treated to a post-test interrogation. But I must respectfully disagree with Random's suggestion that it is safe to assume that your results were NDI (no deception indicated). FBI HQ could still score your charts as "inconclusive." Alternatively, they could also conclude that you employed countermeasures, even though you didn't. If your name really is Mike Epps and your polygraph examination really was on 23 July, then you can be reasonably confident that FBI HQ will identify you through your post here. (Polygraphers from various agencies lurk on this message board.) While it is to be hoped that your posting here might be taken as an indication of your candor, it is also possible that FBI HQ might draw an adverse inference based on your having posted here.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Mike Epps Guest	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #6 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 3:20pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Thanks George! I thank you for your time! I guess I have to cross my fingers till I get my results? ALso...What is a Post Test Interriagtion? After the test, the examiner did not excuse me of lying, nor being totally truthful? He asked me if I wanted to get something of my chest, becuase he did see a problem with my chart? I had nothing to say. That's how we left. Question: If HQ sees my charts with a problem, will they make a judgement on my overall application, or will they base their determination only on the poly?


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Saidme Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 311 Joined: Jun 11^th, 2003	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #7 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 8:59pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George You wrote: "(Polygraphers from various agencies lurk on this message board.)" I resemble that remark.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #8 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 9:09pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Saidme, Actually, you don't "resemble that remark." The term "lurk," as commonly used regarding Internet fora (such as this one), refers to reading without posting. In that context, it has no derogatory connotation (and I certainly intended none).

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Saidme Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 311 Joined: Jun 11^th, 2003	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #9 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 9:51pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Relax George. Just building rapport. Who knows, I may need some information out of you one day.


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Human Subject Senior User Offline Posts: 73 Joined: May 31^st, 2003	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #10 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 9:52pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	random wrote on Jul 25^th, 2003 at 5:55am: If the examiner had detected a problem with a particular question, he would have put you through an interrogation. Since he didn't do it, you can safely assume that there was nothing for him to elicit and you are NDI. Bottom line, with no major derogatory information coming out during your polygraph exam, headquarters will proceed with the next phase until your file is complete and an adjudicator can look at it and make a determination based on the "Whole Person" concept. I disagree. I was "Not Within Acceptable Parameters" after a similar test to Mike's. I didn't lie. I didn't admit anything derogatory. I was told I was having trouble with some questions, but the examiner refused to be specific about which ones.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #11 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 10:00pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mike, If a subject "fails" a polygraph examination, the polygraph examiner will typically conduct a post-test interrogation in an attempt to get an admission/confession from the examinee that he/she had been deceptive. For more on this, see Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute Interview and Interrogation Handbook (5.2 mb PDF). If FBI HQ determines that you failed your polygraph examination, or opines that you employed countermeasures, you will be permanently barred from FBI employment without further ado. If the result is deemed "inconclusive," you might be scheduled for a re-test.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Mike Epps Guest	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #12 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 10:25pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George: How many people @ HQ make the determination? Also, do they take into account the whole application if your poly is "borderline?"


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Saidme Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 311 Joined: Jun 11^th, 2003	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #13 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 10:31pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mike No, you're application has nothing to do with your polygraph. You either passed, failed, inconclusive or they suspect CM's.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Calling his Bluff? Reply #14 - Jul 25^th, 2003 at 10:37pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mike, I don't know how many people at FBI HQ make the determination on applicant polygraph examinations. Those making the determination are themselves polygraph examiners. A "borderline" polygraph examination would be an "inconclusive" one, and the applicant might be scheduled for a re-test. To the best of my knowledge, the rest of a candidate's application is not a factor in the scoring of his/her polygraph charts.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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