PK,
Quote: 2 of them requested 2nd polys by independent 3rd party examiners and were cleared.
So the polygraph does work!! They were cleared. Based on your position on the polygraph, I would not make that claim. Also, are you claiming you know everything about these guys? That is not reasonable. You would have to be with someone every waking moment to testify to all of the issues in a polygraph. You may "kinda know what he's about but, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a hidden relevant issue or two.
Quote:Second, the types of BI that I am speaking about wouldn't need to discover very minor issues, as they are almost always no indication of the true character of a person anyway. Example: 31 yr old male that drove drunk 2 or 3 times when he was 19 yrs old in college. Is it relevant whether a BI uncovers that?
Here you go again determining what is important to the hiring agency. The example you gave would not disqualify most applicants. However, in your case, drug usage DOES disqualify applicants. A BI often does not discover drug usage. Hello polygraph.
Quote: Fourth, "Lie and cheat"?...That's stretching it a bit...I did lie about the NUMBER of times I smoked MJ, and I'm not sure to what extent. All I know is that I was WELL outside the timeframe for use (I think the policy is 5 years), but I believe I exceeded the number of uses permitted (20 or less). Did I keep a log? NO. But it was very infrequent use and I never purchased it. For that matter, I can't say, with 100% certainty that it WAS more than 20, I just think it PROBABLY was. Either way, I had NO problem with "cheating" on that question...it's stupid. Like I said, I feel it's ridiculous to say "20 times, you're good to go...21 times, go home, you can't be a cop." It's irrelevant to me that any of this "concerns" you.
The point is you lied on your application forms. That is a demonstration of your integrity level. THAT concerns me. If you feel this is not a demostration of your integrity level let me know. It also appears as though you not only lied your agency but, three others as well. A further indication of your integrity. I don't care if the policy says 500 times or 20 times...that is the policy. Bottom line. By the way, 20 times sounds very liberal to me. Also, if you can't remember the number of times you used MJ, that tells us a little about your usage history.
Quote: You know, Ray, you have certainly taken a high moral stance for someone who LIES FOR A LIVING, don't ya think? It's kinda like a car thief condemning someone for stealing a candy bar as a child.
This always amuses me. We lie for a living...yes I do. Let's look at this a little closer. Well you're the poly expert so you know why I lie in the pre-test. It has to do with psyche set and allowing the innocent examinee a place to go. I'm a real scumbag. Now during the interrogation I deceive in order to resolve the issue. All good interrogators do this. You should know this. The lies told in the course of a polygraph pale in comparison to your lies, PK. The only reason you antipoly people take the position that examiners are liars and "lie for a living" is that it's at easy shot at us and technically, you're correct. You never explain why we lie. Is it done to conceal our serious past misdeeds like you? Explain to me why we lie. I'm serious. Tell me in your own words why examiners lie. What is the intent behind our lies?
Quote:Fact is, Ray (and other poly-screeners out there), when I retire (or die trying) I'll go KNOWING I served my profession, my community and those close to me with integrity, respect and dedication. What will you have? IF you have any shred of conscience left, I suspect you'll have a head full of bad memories...memories filled with lies, trickery, deceit and mind games.
What will I have? PK let's be honest. I have resolved far more homocides, rapes, child abuse and robbery cases than you will in your career. Refer back a paragraph to my "why we lie" comments. I want you seriously answer that question.
"...lies, trickery, deceit and mindgames." If you're a good interrogator your career will be full of these things as well.
Quote: . I'm out on the street, doing what poly examiners won't (or can't) do. Why do poly examiners become poly examiners anyway? Are they cops that can't handle the street? Too old for SWAT or SRT, too scared for vice or narc work? Don't like not having total control and being able to intimidate others? I just don't recall ever hearing one single person in either of my academy classes say "I can't wait to be a polygraph examiner!" Some say swat, some UC work, some K9, some want brass.
You are one macho guy! Let me tell you about my history. To begin with, my time in special forces units in the military quenched my thirst for any sort of SWAT work... K9's are not my thing...UC work gets old very quick...chasing the brass? already got some thanks. I worked every crime under the sun as an investigator in a large metro area. I gained a reputation for getting confessions. (As you should know, in order to develop informants and make cases you must be a good interrogator). I found that I really enjoyed this aspect of police work. So I kind of fell into polygraph. It was a chance to do interview and interrogation on a daily basis. You may not think good interrogators do "real police work" but you're still young. You may find one day that there is more to police work than acting macho, wrestling with suspects and slapping cuffs on perps (by the way, I still do these things...as do most examiners...and I know more examiners than you do!) Maybe you've been exposed to some "weak" examiners but I assure you I am the norm and not the exception.
Quote: Examiners are typically of the more "portly" variety.
Back this statement up. Don't just say "from what I hear." From my calcualtions you've come across 5 examiners in your life. If you can't back it up, don't say it. You are quick to make personal slams with no evidence. Makes you look silly.
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I had my poly! (Read 36236 times)
