Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Inconclusive? (Read 7031 times)
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Inconclusive?
Jul 2nd, 2003 at 12:34am
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I was told that my polygraph test was inconclusive.  Iam suppose to re-take it. Does anyone have any feed back on this?  Thanks!
  
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #1 - Jul 2nd, 2003 at 5:17am
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Neon_225,

I take it that this is an LE pre-employment poly.   

If I could do it again I would use the information from this site to help me 'pass'.   

Inconclusives are considered as not passing from what I understand.

Once you find out the truth behind polygraphy you will be amazed at what a con it is!  Use the information to your advantage! good luck.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #2 - Jul 2nd, 2003 at 7:53am
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neon 225,

Specifically, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. Chapter 3 explains polygraph procedure in detail, including what is meant by an "inconclusive" outcome. Chapter 4 includes information on how to reduce the risk of a false positive (or inconclusive) outcome.
  

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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #3 - Jul 2nd, 2003 at 10:37pm
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I applied the methods on chapter3-4. After waiting for 3 weeks they called me to tell me that my test was inconclusive. The Polygrapher was nice and friendly, but I didn't fall for any tricks, as discribed in the chapters. What gives?
  
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #4 - Jul 2nd, 2003 at 10:51pm
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A senior polygrapher may have scored your chart as inconclusive, even if the polygrapher who administered the examination scored it as "no deception indicated."

Another possibility is that you may be suspected of having used countermeasures, in which case you are likely to be confronted during the re-test.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #5 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 4:48am
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MY FIRST TEST I HAD INCONCLUSIVE AS WELL  AND I USED COUNTERMEASURE.  MY POLYGRAPH  HE ASKED ME THE CONTROL QUESTION HAD I EVER STOLE ANTHING.  I MADE MINOR ADMISSIONS FOR EXAMPLE WHEN I WAS A KID AND OFFICE SUPPLIES.  I CURRENTLY WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT.  THE EXAMINER GOT REALLY MAD SAYING IT WAS GOVERMENT PROPERTY AND ASKED ME TO NAME THE STUFF I HAD TAKEN  AND DO MY SUPERVISOR KNOW.  I TOLD HIM PROBABLY SO  AND  IT WAS PENS AND PENCILS.    DO YOU THINK I FAILED  BASED ON TAKING OFFICE SUPPLIES??  tHIS WAS THE ONLY QUESTION THAT SEEMED TO FIRE HIM UP!!
  
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #6 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 6:29am
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NE,

No, you would not have failed based on the taking of minor office supplies. Your polygrapher's "getting mad" over your admission to taking pens and pencils was a show, a stock part of the con-artistry of the polygraph trade. The reason the polygrapher made such a big deal of your minor admissions was to steer you into a denial of having taken anything else, so that when you answered the question, "Other than what you told me, did you ever take anything that did not belong to you?" your denial would either be an outright lie or at least not completely true.

Your responses to this and other "control" questions were then compared with reactions to relevant questions.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #7 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 6:55am
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George,

While I think your TLBTLD is well written, I am concerned that many who learn best through labs or traditional classroom instruction may not absorb the information completely. While the scientists at DOE have likely long understood the dance, I can't help but worry that many may learn just enough to reduce their fear of a control Q but not enough to effectively deploy CM's. Further, the people with enough incentive to investigate and completely understand polygraphy may be more likely to be the ones who are trying to deceive rather than just prevent a false positive.

George, you might consider a site warning that the information contained, unless completely read and understood, may increase the risk of an innocent person failing. If completely understood and CM's are not deployed, it may also increase the risk of an innocent failing since the polygrapher will not be able to create the required anxiety on the controls.

-Marty
  

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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #8 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 7:24am
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Marty,

No doubt, some people who read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector will not absorb the material completely. We've tried to keep the language simple without being simplistic. I think the great majority of readers are not having problems understanding it. Note that the great majority (>95%) of those who download the book have not posted on this message board. Thus, what is seen here is perhaps not a good measure of our reading public's ability to grasp the material presented.

I think a site warning, such as you suggested, is unwarranted, and that it is not in anyone's interest to remain ignorant of polygraph procedure -- including the key point that polygraphy is, in essence, merely a bamboozle designed to elicit admissions/confessions.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #9 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 9:06am
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Quote:

Thus, what is seen here is perhaps not a good measure of our reading public's ability to grasp the material presented.

One certainly hopes you are right. I am less sanguine.
Quote:

I think a site warning, such as you suggested, is unwarranted, and that it is not in anyone's interest to remain ignorant of polygraph procedure -- including the key point that polygraphy is, in essence, merely a bamboozle designed to elicit admissions/confessions.

To the extent true admissions/confessions are produced, whether by bamboozlement, voodoo, or entrail reading, I quite disagree. This is one positive of the rather disagreeable process.

I am just pointing out that people should be forwarned that rather like taking Morpheous's red pill, there is no turning back after learning the truth. You can't unlearn it and it is especially problematic for people that choose the path of not using countermeasures.

-Marty
  

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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #10 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 2:56pm
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Thanks George and Marty.  You are right by reading your book I was able to see what the the control questions but I didn't know how to handle the questions once I made my minor admissions.  The examiner said if my supervisor was aware that employees normally take supplies home than their agency can investigate this matter. THIS IS LIE RIGHT GEORGE?
He asked me have I ordered anything not needed for my job I say yes paper for scanning but I told him that I never taken anything home except pens and pencils.  Eventually the subject came to an end and he told me that he didn't believe me.  Once I was hooked up to the machine,  you know that he made this one of my control questions.  he gave me my set of three questions and the test was over.  This was my second test because I had already passed the espionage part.  So he unhooked me and as we were walking, the examiner said I had a strong response to the question about had I stole anything.  I told him that I thought he was going to rephrase the question to besides what he told me minor admissions(child, and office supplies).  But he did say he believe we got a conclusive result this time.  I guess  the examiner wanted stong responses on my control questions right????
  
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #11 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 5:53pm
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I guess  the examiner wanted stong responses on my control questions right????

So, you took the red pill Neo.... Yep, you read that correctly. Looks like you passed.

-Marty
  

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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #12 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 7:11pm
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NE,

I agree with Marty; it looks like you probably passed. However, when you told your polygrapher that you thought he was going to rephrase the question about stealing to, "Other than what you told me..." you may have tipped him off that you know more about polygraphy than you're supposed to.

Marty,

You wrote in part:

Quote:
To the extent true admissions/confessions are produced, whether by bamboozlement, voodoo, or entrail reading, I quite disagree. This is one positive of the rather disagreeable process.


I was speaking from the standpoint of persons facing a polygraph "test" when I wrote that I think "it is not in anyone's interest to remain ignorant of polygraph procedure -- including the key point that polygraphy is, in essence, merely a bamboozle designed to elicit admissions/confessions."
  

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I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
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Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #13 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 7:35pm
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However, when you told your polygrapher that you thought he was going to rephrase the question about stealing to, "Other than what you told me..." you may have tipped him off that you know more about polygraphy than you're supposed to.

I don't think so. This phraseology is normal in pretest interviews and it would be expected that the examinee would recall this from the first test as well. I am suspicious that the examiner may well have left off the phrase, "Other than what you told me.." to elicit a stronger reaction to the control after personally concluding that the examinee may well have been completely honest on the prior, circumscribed, control.  I suspect most polygraphers dread getting a DI on someone who simply is too honest.

Quote:
I was speaking from the standpoint of persons facing a polygraph "test" when I wrote that I think "it is not in anyone's interest to remain ignorant of polygraph procedure -- including the key point that polygraphy is, in essence, merely a bamboozle designed to elicit admissions/confessions."


That's certainly a major part, especially on specific incident tests.

-Marty
  

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Re: Inconclusive?
Reply #14 - Jul 19th, 2003 at 7:55pm
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Marty,

I agree that if NE had heard the phrase "other than what you told me..." during the first question series, then it would not have been unusual for him to have mentioned that he expected the question about stealing to be rephrased.

I also agree that it seems plausible, if not likely, that the polygrapher was attempting to help NE to pass by keeping the scope of that control question open.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
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Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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