Normal Topic "certified authority" (Read 6248 times)
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"certified authority"
Jun 21st, 2003 at 9:26am
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I recently took a test for an entry level Federal LE position.

A part of the test consisted of reading passages and then answering questions based on the material.  -Pretty standard stuff.

One paragraph was about transporting, another about keeping records, another about chain of command.

The one passage that gave me the giggles was about polygraphy.  It started out by saying that a "certified authority" had concluded that the polygraph was valuable in determining truthfulness.

I nearly lost it.  A "certified authority." Could you be any more vague?

It didn't say the Justice Dept or the Association of Police Chiefs, not even four out of five dentists, just a "certified authority"

-As if  just saying the words, "certified authority," gave anything credibility. 

Trying to get the sales pitch in at the first chance...




  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #1 - Jun 21st, 2003 at 8:41pm
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Suethem

It sounds like you're running out of material and conjuring up something to put on this board.  Let's keep it real. Wink
  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #2 - Jun 21st, 2003 at 9:41pm
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Saidme,

Dito!

  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #3 - Jun 21st, 2003 at 11:11pm
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Saidme,

Suethem's post was on-topic, relevant, and based on her recent experience. The person(s) who wrote the test she took for some reason chose not to name the "certified authority" that concluded that the polygraph was "valuable in determining truthfulness."

Does the National Academy of Sciences count as a "certified authority?" Their polygraph review committee was quite skeptical of the polygraph's value in determining truthfulness.
  

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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #4 - Jun 22nd, 2003 at 2:08am
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Saidme, The Shadow....

The paragraph that I spoke of was from the US Customs Inspector/Canine Enforcement Officer test.

Interesting-  Maybe a Customs person can address their use of polygraphs.

They say, in the interview, that you can be subjected to a polygraph test for the Inspector, CEO, and Special Agent postion.  

However, from what I have found out from asking Customs people is, that they do not polygraph at all for the Inspector/ CEO and hardly ever for the SA position.

I know of two people who have become Inspectors - they did not have to take a poly.

I know of three people who have become Special Agents for Customs and none of them were required to take a poly.

Saidme, I will leave the conjuring to you, but I appreciate the accusation that I made up my initial post.  

That should be the polygraph motto:  Accuse, Accuse, Accuse.
« Last Edit: Jun 22nd, 2003 at 6:13am by suethem »  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #5 - Jul 21st, 2003 at 3:42am
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All,

I passed my Background Investigation and was offered a job that I think I will take. 

They did not ask me to take a polygraph (they say that you can be asked).

I am guessing it's because I have passed a real background investigation with flying colors before and have done nothing to tarnish my name since.

What about the domestic violence issue a polygrapher  from another agency accused me of?

The Customs BI just went to my ex's house and asked!

Its hard to argue with a clean report from the ex, who's a psychologist for the state.

In the mind (loose term) of that  polygrapher, I am a no good, piece of shit  who likes to hit when I get mad.

In the 'real' world everyone who knows me: friends family, co-workers, ex's, bosses, superivisors, neighbors, say that I am a good person that plays by the rules and would never hit anyone (which I have never done!)

As for the agency that said I was DI on this issue-- your loss!   Maybe if you did a real background investigation...

  A machine that reads minds-- thats a good one!!



  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #6 - Jul 21st, 2003 at 4:09am
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Congratulations!  I don't know what kind of position you'll be in but if it's in an investigatory position you may have the need to polygraph (yes I said polygraph) a suspect down the road.  How will you reconcile this based on your views of polygraph?  Will you pass up the opportunity and not use an investigative step that could solve the case?  Or will you just figure, oh what the hell, another one get's away!  Regarding your background investigation.  They're usually a joke.  The guys and gals who do them have a standard set of questions they ask everybody.  I don't even think I would call them background investigations.  Probably more like background inquiries.   Wink
  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #7 - Jul 21st, 2003 at 5:58am
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Saidme,

Thanks for the congratulations!!!

Use a polygraph?  Thats a good question.

I dont' think that I would be inclined to use it.  If my case was in that much trouble I would try another avenue or simply wait for new developement.   

My background investigation was what it was.  It was certainly much more complex than the simple letter send out and pre-employment poly that most Police Departments do.

Like I have written before, a background investigation is mutiple people painting a picture of a candidate.

The polygraph is one person deciding the value of a candidate.

I will take multiple sources of information over one source that is highly questionable any day.

  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #8 - Jul 21st, 2003 at 5:20pm
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Customs has hired one hell of an investigator! 8)
  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #9 - Jul 21st, 2003 at 7:18pm
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Sue,

Once you get out into the real world you'll realize how stupid your statement, "If my case was in that much trouble I would try another avenue or simply wait for new developement.", really is.  First, it won't be your case.  It'll be your agency's case, and it'll be the case of all those above you.  Second, if they want polygraph utilized, you won't be sitting there telling them that you're going to "...simply wait for a new developement."  What you're inclined to use will be irrelevant.  You'll use everything at your disposal.

If you're going to get into the business you better come in with both eyes wide open.  You'll do whatever is necessary, and whatever you're told to do to get the job done.  If not, you'll simply be waiting for a new job.

BATMAN    
  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #10 - Jul 21st, 2003 at 8:10pm
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Batman,

From what I have learned hear (and in the 'real' world) -having someone pass a poly does not really mean that they told the truth.   The article in the Times about Sadam's goons passing, but obviously lying is an example.

If my sup tells me to let the polygrapher have a shot- I will.  I follow the rules.  I understand that there are people with more experience than me- and I am eager to learn new techniques.

But if that person passed it would not rule them out in my mind, unless there was other information backing up that persons story-  and that tends to be a problem- some people believe that a pass means that the person is golden!  I would not assume that at all.

Likewise if a person failed a poly, but gave no confession and denied lying, I could not just discard the information that he provided.

Different Agenices use the poly to check their CI's claims.  Some do, some don't.  I don't know if Customs does.

My point is that checking and double checking from another angle is always a good idea.

Waiting for new developments-  I did not mean to suggest siting in the office and counting sheep.  It has been my experience that why an investigation in on going, often times new pieces of the puzzle appear and new information can change the way something is approached.   

It has also been my experience that prosecutors like cases that are solid and fact based.  Prosecutors like cases that are slam dunks for a good reason- its important to get it right.

As for what I will do-  I will do what I think is right!  Its worked in the past and lets me sleep at night.


  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #11 - Jul 22nd, 2003 at 12:29am
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Unfortunately most prosecutors like the slam dunks because it gives them a whole lot less work to do.  It also keeps them from screwing up the case.  You've got a long haul Sue. Cheesy
  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #12 - Jul 22nd, 2003 at 5:55am
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Saidme,

Don't like prosecutors either.  Man, who do you like?- just polygraphers?

When everyone is the enemy it is time to go back to cloud city!!!
  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #13 - Jul 24th, 2003 at 5:27am
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I like you.  I would love to be your trainer.  Maybe we could enlighten one another.  Why don't you refrain from responding regarding lawyers until you've put you first or second scumbag behind bars.  Then we can have a good discussion on the topic.  It's hard to explain something you've not bee involved first hand. Wink
  
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Re: "certified authority"
Reply #14 - Jul 24th, 2003 at 7:10am
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Saidme,

Again, you assume without knowing...

As I posted elsewhere, I have years of law enforcement experience and putting people behind bars.  I left LE for a few years but missed it too much.  Now I am back. 

So, thanks for your offer, but no thanks!!

  
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