(UTC)
(Moderator: Administrator)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Molly Bish (Read 21598 times)
orolan
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 363
Joined: Dec 25th, 2002
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #15 - Jun 17th, 2003 at 11:18pm
Print Post  
Drew,
Do you think at this stage that a viable suite of GKT questions could be formulated for this case? Do you think the police have enough facts that haven't been given out to the media?
  
"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Drew Richardson
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 427
Joined: Sep 7th, 2001
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #16 - Jun 18th, 2003 at 12:59am
Print Post  
Orolan,

Because I have not spoken with those investigating the matter, anything I might say in answer to your two questions other than 'I don't know" would be idle speculation.  I would hope proper planning, well executed investigation and/or good luck would lead to an affirmative answer to both questions...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
orolan
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 363
Joined: Dec 25th, 2002
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #17 - Jun 18th, 2003 at 5:30am
Print Post  
Drew,
Under the circumstances I would expect no more than a speculative answer on the subject. It is highly likely at this point that luck is going to play the biggest part in solving this case. 
As you said, the GKT most likely would have performed much better than the CQT had it been used in the early stages of the investigation.
On the subject of the GKT, where would one find informative discourses on its pros, cons and best uses? The subject interests me and I know just enough about it to end up putting my foot in my mouth.
  
"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Marty
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 27th, 2002
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #18 - Jun 18th, 2003 at 7:04am
Print Post  
orolan wrote on Jun 18th, 2003 at 5:30am:
Drew,
... As you said, the GKT most likely would have performed much better than the CQT had it been used in the early stages of the investigation.
On the subject of the GKT, where would one find informative discourses on its pros, cons and best uses? The subject interests me and I know just enough about it to end up putting my foot in my mouth.


There is a book called "The handbook of polygraphy", edited by Kleiner (Academic Press, 2002) , that has a good chapter on CIT (aka GKT), by a Japanese practitioner. According to him, the Japanese polygraphy community uses CIT's almost exclusively, stating that many polygraphers have never even seen a CQT.

I think a lot of the problem is one of background and training. CIT's are a more recent invention and were adopted in Japan as there wasn't the inertia of a pre-existing polygraph infrastructure. CIT's are useless for screening but great for specific incident situations where details are not widely known. I think polygraphers are missing the boat by not training in the CIT in this country. You don't have the problem of >50% of the people failing those.

-Marty
  
Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Drew Richardson
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 427
Joined: Sep 7th, 2001
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #19 - Jun 18th, 2003 at 6:50pm
Print Post  
Orolan,

Although somewhat difficult to find (now out of print), David Lykken's first edition text A Tremor in the Blood (1981) in chapters 20 through 22 (the middle chapter being a fairly detailed account of a fictional crime, investigated and examined via a GKT exam) is probably the best overall explanation and example written for a general audience.  There are, of course, numerous reports in the scientific literature for those with a more technical background and interest.  Because the aforementioned text is no longer being sold, I will check with David regarding what he would suggest for those who might be interested in obtaining the material I refer to.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Drew Richardson
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 427
Joined: Sep 7th, 2001
Orolan, Re: Molly Bish
Reply #20 - Jun 18th, 2003 at 7:13pm
Print Post  
Orolon,

With regard to my previous post:

Quote:
...Orolan, 
 
Although somewhat difficult to find (now out of print), David Lykken's first edition text A Tremor in the Blood (1981) in chapters 20 through 22 (the middle chapter being a fairly detailed account of a fictional crime, investigated and examined via a GKT exam) is probably the best overall explanation and example written for a general audience.  There are, of course, numerous reports in the scientific literature for those with a more technical background and interest.  Because the aforementioned text is no longer being sold, I will check with David regarding what he would suggest for those who might be interested in obtaining the material I refer to....


I spoke with David Lykken who indicated he would send me a pdf file containing the aforementioned fictional account which he is willing to provide to this site for its posting/publication.  I expect to receive the file in the near future and will make it available shortly thereafter.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6278
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #21 - Jun 18th, 2003 at 11:18pm
Print Post  
The file Drew mentioned is now available for download:

"The Body on the Stairs: A Pedagogical Detective Story" (2.2 mb PDF) by David Thoreson Lykken. Chapter 21 of A Tremor in the Blood: Uses and Abuses of the Lie Detector, 1st edition, New York: McGraw-Hill, 1981.

This chapter is not included in the 2nd edition of A Tremor in the Blood. It was very kind of Professor Lykken to grant permission for it to be made available on-line.
  
George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Signal Private Messenger: ap_org.01
SimpleX: click to contact me securely and anonymously
E-mail: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
orolan
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 363
Joined: Dec 25th, 2002
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #22 - Jun 18th, 2003 at 11:57pm
Print Post  
My thanks to Drew, George and especially to David Lykken for his generous offer.
  
"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6278
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #23 - Dec 3rd, 2003 at 6:01pm
Print Post  
The CBS news program 48 Hours will be covering the Molly Bish case tonight (Wed., 3 Dec. 2003):

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/01/48hours/main586143.shtml
  
George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Signal Private Messenger: ap_org.01
SimpleX: click to contact me securely and anonymously
E-mail: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
orolan
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 363
Joined: Dec 25th, 2002
Re: Molly Bish
Reply #24 - Dec 4th, 2003 at 12:37am
Print Post  
Thanks George. Wonder if they'll have anything "new", or just a rehash of what is already known.
  
"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

AntiPolygraph.org Message Board » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge