Normal Topic Unbelievable (Read 3562 times)
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Unbelievable
Apr 4th, 2003 at 12:43am
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As if we didn't have enough trouble. Now an "artificial intelligence" person is going to accuse people of deception.

http://www.e4engineering.com/item.asp?id=48369&type=news
  

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: Unbelievable
Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2003 at 4:09am
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I think the thing that many people fail to recognize is that the polygraph machine (in and of itself) is nothing more than an investigative (or shall we say - interrogative) "tool". And in being such, it is neither inherently good nor bad, but is manipulated for the purposes of the person(s) administering the "test". Much like the AI you refer to Orolan, polygraphy and the AI tools are merely forms of DSS in the realm of info systems and technology. DSS referring to Decision Support Systems - they serve to help the user make a decision - nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunately, far too many people and agencies rely on these aids as decision-MAKERS  in that they are the only constructs or tools implemented in coming to a final disposition; whereas, the greatest impact they should serve is to support a decision (at best).
  
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Re: Unbelievable
Reply #2 - Apr 4th, 2003 at 4:17am
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By the way...for those who may be interested, the National Academies News bulletin carries an interesting article regarding the need to terminate the use of polygraphy in  security screening. You can access the article at the following link:

http://www4.nas.edu/news.nsf/isbn/0309084369?OpenDocument

For those of you who are not familiar with the organization of academies, it originated in early 1863 under congressional charter. The National Academy of Sciences was created by the federal government to be an adviser on scientific and technological matters. However, the Academy and its associated organizations are private, not governmental, organizations and do not receive direct federal appropriations for their work. Ironically enough however, a great majority of the studies carried out by the National Academies are at the request of government agencies - funny that a study requested by "them", provides results terribly contradictory to the utility the government obviously "creates" with the polygraph.

  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Unbelievable
Reply #3 - Apr 4th, 2003 at 8:57am
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That the polygraph is merely "an investigative tool" is an oft-heard refrain of the law enforcement and intelligence communities in general and the polygraph community in particular when confronted with the argument that polygraphy is unreliable.

Polygraphy is not "just a tool": it is quackery. Undereducated decision-makers in our law enforcement and intelligence agencies attach to it a diagnostic value that it does not have.

I'll re-post here comments I made in an earlier message thread (Consequences of "Failed" Polygraph):

...The argument that the polygraph is only one factor in security clearance determinations is indeed disingenous. At the same p ublic meeting of the National Academy of Sciences at which Mr. Renzelman spoke, Dr. Alan P. Zelicoff of Sandia National Laboratories also gave a talk on polygraphy, and in response to a question by one of the panel members provided the following anecdote:

Quote:
A positive polygraph is simply very very hard to live down [words indistinct]. In the few cases, historically, at Sandia -- I've followed three cases that I know of over the past ten years where people have failed their polygraph. These all happened to people -- happened to be people -- that were working in the intelligence section of the national laboratory. They all lost their jobs at the intelligence section. They were moved out to work elsewhere that they considered to be less satisfying. Now the reason was not because they were a spy. Certainly the reason was not because they were being deceptive or in any way trying to fool the polygrapher, but rather because the perception was that they were simply no longer trustworthy.

...

There is a level of suspicion that is generated among decision makers that is just simply hard to live down.


Dr. Zelicoff's entire presentation may be listened to in RealPlayer format begining at about 23 minutes into the following file:

http://video.nationalacademies.org/ramgen/dbasse/012601_4b.rm

and continuing at:

http://video.nationalacademies.org/ramgen/dbasse/012601_5.rm

The undue significance attached to polygraph chart readings in security clearance (as well as hiring) determinations is explained in part by Lykken's Law, regarding which see pp. 74-75 of the 2nd edition of A Tremor in the Blood. The following passage sums it up:

Quote:
Uncertainty is painful to the decision maker. Complicated evidence can only be evaluated subjectively and subjectivity leads to doubt and disagreement. One longs for some straightforward, definitive datum that will resolve the conflict and impel a conclusion. This longing not infrequently leads one to invest any simple, quantitative, or otherwise specific bit of evidence with a greater weight than it deserves, with a predictive power it does not really possess. In decision making, the objective dominates the subjective, the simple squeezes out the complicated, the quantitative gets more weight than the nonmetrical, and dichotomous (yes/no, pass/fail) evidence supersedes the many-valued. This is Lykken's Law


Aldrich H. Ames also provided an insightful commentary on this phenomenon in his letter dated 28 November 2000 to Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists' Secrecy in Government Project:

Quote:
Most people in the intelligence and CI business are well aware of the theoretical and practical failings of the polygraph, but are equally alert to its value in institutional, bureaucratic terms and treasure its use accordingly. This same logic applies to its use in screening potential and current employees, whether of the CIA, NSA, DOE or even of private organizations.

Deciding whether to trust or credit a person is always an uncertain task, and in a variety of situations a bad, lazy or just unlucky decision about a person can result not only in serious problems for the organization and its purposes, but in career-damaging blame for the unfortunate decision-maker. Here, the polygraph is a scientific godsend: the bureaucrat accounting for a bad decision, or sometimes for a missed opportunity (the latter is much less often questioned in a bureaucracy) can point to what is considered an unassailably objective, though occasionally and unavoidably fallible, polygraph judgment. All that was at fault was some practical application of a "scientific" technique, like those frozen O-rings, or the sandstorms between the Gulf and Desert One in 1980.


By publicly exposing polygraph "testing" for the fraud that it is (as we are doing here on AntiPolygraph.org) we can nullify the utility of the polygraph as a responsibility-avoidance mechanism for decision makers.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Unbelievable
Reply #4 - Apr 6th, 2003 at 6:48pm
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Don't mean to give the wrong impression...I do not believe the polygraph and the "science" of polygraphy is by any means a standard by which we should measure most individuals who are up against the machine; however, I do believe that the machine (aka the box) itself is nothing more than a tool that is manipulated in order to achieve the desired effect. Polygraphy as a science, sport, or practice obviously has inherent flaws and they are only exasperated by the ignorance of some polygraphists and biased belief in the capabilities of the man & machine combination. As I mentioned, I think the polygraph (and the associated environment, polygraphist, anxiety build-up to the test, etc...)has served its purpose as to one aspect - and that is only in the ability to generate admissions or confessions - when done in a reasonable manner. Outside of that, there are far too many flaws in the methodology and far too many good people refeerred to as "acceptable losses" to rely upon polygraphy as a decision making device.
  
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