We're pushing day three of "The Return"; I've spoken with 12 other jaded law enforcement officers and so far all have the same opinion, there's something rotten in Utah and it ain't polygraph.

What's it mean when dad says, "I'm so thankful that Elizabeth has returned to us."?

Any guesses?

Batman

Very possible, very possible.

Let's all play detective.  Seeing that there appears to be a sentiment that polygraph misdirected this investigatgion, lets take it from the top and see how this might have been investigated.

Ok, we've just been notified by the Smart family that their 14/15 year old daughter has been abducted from her bedroom in the middle of the night.  What's step number one?

Humor me, play along and lets see where we end up.  What the heck, it's better than calling each other names, for now.

Batman

IS GEORGE MASCHE BEING PAID TO LEAD THE FIGHT TO PROHIBIT THE POLYGRAPH? (MAYBE BY THE BRAIN WAVE GUY)

I Also believe "THAT IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS" that is why this is a question rather than a statement!  However if some malcontent or rumor monger wants to jump on the bandwgon or soapbox and spread a story about George accepting money from D.R. for his "free" services, that is not my fault or my intent I am merely posing a question.

By the way, I do not recall reading or hearing anything that Ricci "turned out to be innocent".  I thought that the entire matter was still under investigation.  Could George be jumping the gun?  Just another question!

    George,

  As a collective body, I find most of the listings on your site to be critical of your view on polygraph generally, and your obsession with it specificaly.  In the Smart case You / We are working with what little information has been released thus far, and not the complete information in what took place and the findings of all of the tests done.  Further, Although the public has a right to know such things, it is only after a case has gone to trial or a claim that it has been solved that such information is released.  

  At some point you really have to take a step back, look at yourself and ask why, as an academic, you have become so obsessed with this polygraph thing.  One has to wonder in your specific case where you claimed they told you that you failed such a test; whether you would have met the security clearance criteria under the Psyche exam given your level of obsessive behavior.  Could your foreign travels also have played a part in your being assessed as not the most desireable candidate ?  There are only so many openings in such agencies which you applied for, so why should we assume that you were otherwise the best qualified despite your polygraph result ?  Did you get a private sector retest prior to your commitment to countermeasures ? It is a shame to see such an academic mind concentrate on the negative, rather than use your mind to improve such a system or replace it with something better.  You have only criticisms and no solutions; the lowest form of academic participation.

 I was also wondering, why would such a prestigious organization as the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory put their efforts and software scoring program in this field if they could not validate it and/or make it reliable ?

 Doesn't the forward movement of technology, as added to the polygraph hardware and software, make your arguments weaker with each passing addition.  Surely there are too many confirmed D.I. and N.D.I. charts, vs. False Positives or False Negatives, not to give this profession merit to the realm of statistical significance.  Doesn't guilty knowledge / peak of tension type testing on elements of the crime, unknown to all but the perpetrator and police, act as a clear indicated to the point of lottery odds in it being any other person in such a case ?  

 In short, give credit where credit is due, weed out any unprofessional types as with any other profession, and let's get on with solving cases with this and other valuable investigative tools !!!!!!!!

TheNoLieGuy

TheNoLieGuy,

Because you mentioned the polygraph-related efforts of the APL of JHU, perhaps you might be interested in the following linked article authored by three very senior scientists and members of the Society for Psychophysiological Research (SPR).  The article can be found at http://www.stoeltingco.com/polygraph/peerreviewb.htm.

Contained within the summary are the following two statements:

Quote:

TheNoLieGuy,

The following is being re-posted in order to correct the number of scientists contributing to the report.  The correct number of committee members is five, not three, as stated in my previous post.  The corrected post:

TheNoLieGuy,

Because you mentioned the polygraph-related efforts of the APL of JHU, perhaps you might be interested in the following linked article authored by five very senior scientists (including two past Presidents of the Society for Psychophysiological Research (SPR)).  The article can be found at http://www.stoeltingco.com/polygraph/peerreviewb.htm.

Contained within the summary are the following two statements:

Quote:

 

TheNoLieGuy

If you want to debate the validity/NOvilidity of the polygraph or attack someone, start a new thread. Batman has started us on an investigation of the Smart case and posts between his scenarios distracts from following. 

Batman

I am interested in your investigation theory of this case because I think there was a number of mistakes made in the original investigation as was in the Ramsey case. However, little has been published of the  beginning details and I doubt that they will make those public. You know, as a LEO, investigator  "down and dirty" details are seldom made public. Even at trials, investigator mistakes are hard to gather.

Orolan & 2Block:

OK, we tell our best interviewer to tuck in his shirt, suck in his gut, and put out the stogie.

Not bad, we need to determine when was Elizabeth last seen.  Initial interviews of the parents go easy, however we have to ensure they are thorough.  Remember, as in the Ramsey case, and what appears to be a growing trend, we may not have the full cooperation of the parents and extended family for very long.  We need to get the most while we can.  This family appears to be fairly cooperative though. 

One of the key elements of our interviews has to be what type of girl is Elizabeth?  We can not forget that she is a 14 year old and may have simply run off on her own. So the dynamics of the family is almost equally as improtant as other elements.  We need to look at the extended family.   

Side note: We also have a few murders, rapes, child abuse investigations, and general mayham still going on so a major consideration has to be allocation of manpower.  Just how many folks do we put on this invstigation, at the expense of other ongoing investigations?

Given what we know about child abductions, if this girl was abducted and we don't locate her within the first 24-72 hours she may be killed, we push hard early.  We need to really narrow the focus and we need to do it quickly.  We have limited resources.  The sister has indicated that someone has entered the room late at night and Elizabeth was taken out of the room by this person.  We can't discount the fact this sister is only 10 years old so the accuracy of her information is suspect.  Also, she did not tell her parents that her sister was taken out of the room for at least two hours after the fact so we are wondering if maybe Elizabeth enlisted the aid of her sister to cover her running away.  Still a possibility, after all she is a 14 year old, the prime age for taking off.  All of this really widens the possibilities.  The press is on to this now, and the pressure ratchets up.  Just got a call of a pretty serious domestic abuse, shit, one or two more guys gone.  What's next?

Batman